It's complicated, but at heart there are a few simple logical points that form a point of departure for me.

1. Maori are, and have been for generations, worse off for money, health, education, and standard of living than white people.
2. There is either something inherently wrong with Maori, or there is something inherently wrong with the system.

Personally, I think there's something wrong with the system, because the other option is, um, racist.

Also, if, as I do, you believe that one of the roles of a good government is to create an environment which results in more equality, then it follows that targeting initiatives at Maori is a pretty sound idea.

One of the arguments often put up against that is that government help should be targeted at the poor no matter who they are. In answer, I refer you back to the statistics, which show that Maori are behind the rest of the country in most every way that counts. They have been for generations. Spending money to find specific ways of targeting that specific problem isn't about favouritism, or political correctness - it's about efficiency.

Finally, I want to make the BLATENTLY OBVIOUS point that you seem to have missed. If Maori had it so much better than the rest of us, why are there so many: dying young from preventable diseases, unemployed, in prison, uneducated, on the bread line, the victims of crime?

Take a look around, Andrea.

bumble

bumble,

You do make some good points. I don't completely disagree with you.

But, I do disagree on the way to fix the problem. If you target solutions at specific socioeconomic groups, rather than at specific race, is that not better? That way, you will be helping those who need it, without making other races feel inferier or feel like the government doesn't care out them?

Perhaps you need to change the way the help is structured and targeted at that group. But with New Zealand turning into the big melting pot it is, how many different schemes can we really come up with?

Also, perhaps Maori judge 'richness' by different measures than European people do? But again, how can you come up with different measures for different people?

What gets me, and this is one of the few personal expreiences I have had on the matter, is quite wealthy Maori friends of mine getting full scholarships and other payments for their studies at university, where I was not eligible in any way for similar scheemes. Surely that is not right?!

Bumble, perception is everything I guess, I don't think we differ in opinion by as much as it may seem.

Andreas (AndreasRoom.com)

I am glad you are thinking about the issues Andrea and are discussing them. I am not sure whether you are aware that most Maori scholarships are funded from money that is rightfully Maori (through land leases etc). This money is held at the choice of Maori, to contribute to education of Maori. I too like you attended University with very little funding, mainly because I did not have a family that has sufficient finances to support me. For many Maori, scholarships and grants are one way of getting funding from Maori sources just as people get funding from their families. Although you identify you have wealthy Maori friends, any look at NZ statistics will show you that on a population basis, Maori are grossly over-represented in low socio-economic sectors of society. There are some wealthy Maori who have access to scholarships that are funded from Maori sources such as MEF however it is most likely that on balance it these scholarships will end up in the hands of those with high levels of need.

Sam

New Zealand is for all who live in her - no race should be treated more than the other, we are all one tribe - Ngati Kiwi

Jared

The point is not whether we are all one people- because we clearly are not.
The point is that Maori are tangata whenua- they were the first ones here, we came to their land and took over. I'm sure any person who takes the time to read about the foreshore or seabed debate or any debate relating to the Treaty would see that they are the ones hard done by, not us.
Never before have Maori charged us to use their beaches, so why would they start now?

Theresa

Im all for the support of my man don, im half moari, and im sick of seeing other moari thinking they have more rights over every one else because there moari, in the end, how many moari's are there these days. i dont think there is on full blooded moari left in NZ, im not even half, proberly 1/10.
i feel that if moari do have somthing to say, say it properly like every one else. why should they get away with the way the protest over everyone else. in the end, moari are rascist, they are the ones who seperate them selfs from others who live in NZ. and those who stand up and tell them to do it properly like me, are called rascist. my own family have disownd me for my opinions about the whole thing. it shows you who the real rascist are in NZ. I was born in NZ, by New Zealanders, i am a Kiwi, Mother Pakeha, Farther Moari. What else would i be but a true Kiwi. in the end i have more rights then any other side for i am both.

Lee

It's not the matter of who is worse off economically. It's about all of us coming together to perserve our land and heritage. Some Pakeha are twice as bad off as some Maori, and vice versa. Being politically correct has been an incredible burden to us Kiwi folk. We ought to be proud of being one people, proud of our heritage, whether or not it is in our blood.

Starr

Dr Brash needs an education in the politics of ethnicity and identity. Firstly, ethnicity is not based on blood quantum (a eurocentric concept); it is based upon real or putative descent to a common ancestor. Secondly, Maori have not been given 'special rights'on the basis of ethnicity; customary rights pre-existed the Treaty of Waitangi and the settler government. Theses rights were guaranteed by the crown under Article two of the treaty and in common law.

Jo

The vast majority of funding for Maori scholarship comes from Maori organisations. Little attention has been paid to other scholarship aimed at other groups on the basis of gender, disability or their future profession i.e. scholarships for law students or nursing students. Perhaps we should look at the bigger picture before commenting on what Maori get.

Jo

Dr Brash needs an education in the politics of ethnicity and identity. Firstly, ethnicity is not based on blood quantum (a eurocentric concept); it is based upon real or putative descent to a common ancestor. Secondly, Maori have not been given 'special rights'on the basis of ethnicity; customary rights pre-existed the Treaty of Waitangi and the settler government. These rights were guaranteed by the crown under Article two of the treaty and in common law.

Jo

In regards to lee's comments about that "moaris" are racist well I beg to differ that a minority people would be as racist as Anglo New Zealanders when the British went out to colonise the 3/4 of the earth they carried an ego that they are superior to ever other race on earth. From the comments here nothing has changed you people go around taking over the planet impoverishing and destroying countless races push them aside into state housing leaving them to struggle in poverty and have the audacity to turn around and say they are over priveliged. Take a drive through Newmarket and you will see who is overpriveliged then take a drive through Otara and you will see how colonisation broke the back of a people. To give Maori some sort of concessions in Education or any field is just a start to clearing your convictions come judgement day. So if you truley believe we are "One People" how come the white ones live in wealth and the brown ones live in poverty -thats right the white ones are superior.

Joe

So heres the big question.Lets say your half Maori whats the rest of your blood??No doubt its European.Yer thats right you've got European blood in so as far as the blood thing goes shame on your heritage because your family coontributed to the down fall of your race.Will i get a slap for saying down fall because more or less thats what your saying.Economically blah blah blah.Move on its old news with the mixtures of blood these days we already are one.

jemma

Jemma if notice the Maori Population at the start of the 20th Century Equaled 5000 people the same amount that died in a single day in New York on September 11th 2001. The only way for Maori off spring to survive Anglo New Zealanders disease was to interbreed with them. So Anglo New Zealanders can take credit for Genocide they wiped off the face of the Earth the last pure Aryan the Maori Genetic. The debate we are one people is far from the truth the Maori Culture has more in common with the Japanese Culture as they are both an eastern culture. What would a Maori Warrior and a Scottish highlander have in common? So Maori have contaminated genetics that means we are One. This Anti Maori Rhetoric smells alot like Germany in 1939 where a politician lead the public to believe that a minority people was the cause of all their problems. Please Jemma Don Brash is a Politician and he knows your fears and he is willing to play on them. Your fear is that Maori are overpriveliged I assure you its not true they live in poverty & feel inferior to Anglo New Zealanders and don't have the same confidence in the workforce even if they can get employed.

Joe

Have you lived in Australia? Its made up of every other nation under the sun, Its polluted ugly and every inch of real estate in suburbia is being snatched up for greed of the the mighty dollar. Do you know how they treat the aborigines? They hate them and call them black fellas and niggers, why? because they got here first? I dont know. All I know is there land is being taken raped and wasted by greed of man. And for that they are spat upon.
As an australian citizen and tax payer id welcome a levy to help them better themselves.
After all its their land and we are merely visiters to it.
Id hate to see Nz and up this way, its beautiful and so are the people. If people like Don Brash have thier way, Nz will sadly end up like australia, ugly full of hate. And foreigners changing laws to suit there own agenda.

vamp

theres alot of maori people at my high school. they are poor, stupid and they pick fights.

i go to town or to new lynn to go shopping or meet my friends and I see these maori and pacific islanders sitting down all day and loitering asking for money and cigarettes and picking fights.

my best friend daniel was threatened for his shoes about a month ago.

there is no future for maori and pacific islanders because the young generation of maori are just like i described before.

I am becoming a racist person due to the maori teenagers bad behaviour.

i will just point out that i have three friends who are maori and they are nice people. but on the other hand they are part maori and growing up in a pleasant neighbourhood.

but i still hate these maori n!ggers.

richard

bro fock you all.

im at an internet cafe and i stole some kids money bro.

im cool aye and im maori.

fock you rihard dumb fok. ill knock yo out bro.

maori man

see what i mean?

richard

I HATE FAT MAORI NIGGERS THAT STEAL!

they all steal your shoes and try o fight you. they're all poor and stupid. Don Brash is doing a good job by putting the nigger in his place.

greg

The maori are a pathetic race and are determined to run N.Z. into more of a third world country than it already is. I am a Caucasian Not european and not pakeha and have no desire to be lumped in with the darkies of this land.

susan

I dislike Maoris, all they do is steal and pick fights, and its just getting worse. All they do is come into my work, try leech free food, throw sauce make messes and steal things off the wall.

Stealing, fighting and being rude IS the Maori culture these days.

All I see in schools is big groups of Maoris picking fights with white and other ethnic people. They fail school and theres no point in them being there, and the only reason is so they can play rugby.

And yet they get handouts from the government including scholar ships because they are idiots who cant get there on merits, special maori land rights and all this other crap.

I tell ya what, without all the PI's and Maoris, this would be a better place.

Concerned NZer.

Hi there, I try my best not to be racist at my school. even going to the tuckshop to get my lunch, i am hounded by Maori and pacific islanders asking for my food and money and threatening to beat me up/kill me, if i dont give them my spare change.

i beleive this horrendous situation is the result of a few events, i will try to explain my view.

1. the idiot that translated the treaty of waitangi thought he would be clever, and make it seem like a good thing for the maori to sign.

2. Greed, the sheer greed of mankind brought this situation on himself.

3. The Waitangi Tribunal, I belelive this organisation is sick, they should close it down, the government has payed out $600million taxpayers to the maori based on historic claims alone.
The Maori were a nomadic people, the would travel around the country, consuming all the moa.
Also, maori theory was not land ownership by money or goods, it was by power. if one tribe wanted another tribes land they wouldn't sit down to a meal and negotiate, they would take out their weapons and kill each other (and then most likely eat each other, because its a fact that the maori were cannabalistic.)


Modern maori attitude disgusts me, the waitangi tribunal has taught maori today that they don't need jobs, all they need to do is have their hand out and make a noise.

Thanks for reading

Anonymous

why are maori not respected, because i am a maori and i ani't going to chage being a Maori any time soon.

lee

Maori are good people aspecially me

maybe if the trety was not neglected by the government and abused by the truth we would not have these problems

if you read the trety clearly Maori's have partnership with the Queen of England and the government, therefore Maori people were establised to run there own needs and there own gornmentship

so while your sitting on your ass saying that the trety is sick take a look at the sick partnership that the governmnet has stured upon Maori people

and no the trety does not give as a reson to sit on our asses because the bullies that have hurt you are in school doing something for their lives

oo next time read the trety properly since it was your ancetors who translated it

john

All,
We can go back and forth with the finger-pointing and name-calling. In the grand scheme of things, the bottom line is that socio-economic disparities between the races must be rectified. In the word's of malcom x" by any means necessary".

Lucky212

Having travelled overseas and come back to new zealand I feel sad, sad that this country is being held to ransom by a bunch of blacks, this country would be a paradise without maoris and polynesians, look at all the crime committed in auckland, most of it by these dark folk, how is raping a woman going to get you money? its not these people don't do crime for the money they do it because they are a bunch of caveman thugs, fukin kill em all i say. I'm going back overseas, NZ as a home doesn't fukin have much appeal anymore. the niggers have ruined it for everyone, and until the government and white people in general realise this nothings going to change. They're just like cavemen, look back 200 years ago, they were still living in huts man, they hadn't even discovered metal for fuks sake. And now they drive around in skylines and evo's which they can only afford by robbing you and I.
Fuk off back to the islands. we don't want you,.

freestyler

Freestyler is absolutely right. They beat up everyone they see, they steal everything that isn't bolted down, they intimidate and threaten anybody who looks at them. They are mostly lazy, and simply demand freebies from the Govt., most of which then gets frittered away on failed business ventures and booze. Most of the land they're given is used for the cultivation of gorse and weed. I had nothing to do with the Treaty yet my tax payer dollars were being wasted on a bunch of social misfits and thugs. I say 'were' coz we left NZ five years ago and will not be returning. It is an embarassing shambles of a country, and the place now makes us cringe.

Ex-Proud Kiwi

The problem is that they do treat Maori doifferent they are saying you are too dumb to go through school the normal way so they have to help them.

Every race is poor the only difference is whether you think hey i'm gonna help myself or its all your fault gimme gimme gimme. I meet a Maori lady that started out poor got no help from the gov. and worked up her own beaty salon. She is 29 years old and gets over$1000.00 a week. All her own doing.

I have a family of Maori's living next door the whole neigbourhood hates them (which is every race possible including other maori's) because they don't work they spend all day screaming (not yelling) at their kids and kicking their small puppy, they play way too loud music all day not caring about anyone else and they grow weed.

With my taxes I pay for them to be on the dole. Everyone gets the same life school is free til up to high school than you can get a student loan. ask any 20something yr old and they will have a huge S.L why because they want to succeed.
what is wrong withg the average Maori? do they have no pride and self respect anymore. If their ancestors saw them now, they would be discussed by how they behave.

And also Maori's were not first here they were just like the whites the came over by sea. The only differece is they ate the Mori Ori's. This is not their land its the Mori Ori's, they stole it off them and than complain when it happens to them???? thats karma at least they got gifts the whites treated them better than they treated the Mori Ori's. So f*** off we are intitled to NZ as much as anyone else.

The Maori's don't follow the Treaty it is meant to unit NZers as one, BULLSHIT they demand to be treated better.

pippy

First off, I would like to thank Freestyler and Ex-Proud Kiwi
... Thanks for no longer being in the country, I am sure the rest of the nation apreciate that.

Second. I am thinking the last 10 posts regarding racial purity and pro-genocide towards Maori, are all Don Brash supporters?

and back to the original issue here, rather then maori bashing with obvious stereotypes (i thought most of these posts were a joke).
==============================================
Don Brash wants one nation/one people. So i am guessing the "one people" would be 'Kiwis' and the kiwis would be 'european' instead of 'maori', deleting Maori culture and lineage out of existance. This is the fear the maori people have. After all, everysingle European that would be a kiwi would have a heritage to look back upon

ie. Ansestors 5 or so generations ago (from ... lets say ... England) moved to New Zealand to start a new life etc

But where would Maori people themselves look back to? 'Oh about 3000 or so years ago the ancestors came from some place, come where' ???

The fact of the matter is, our nation is to young to become one people... give it a hundred years or so when non-maori
have firmly embedded their heritage into the face of New Zealand.
=====================================

If you are a kiwi, be a kiwi and be proud of it. But dont be jealous of Maori because they have a couple of extra rights because they have been here thousands of more years then other cultures.

PS - Guess what race i am :P

LewsTherin

I overexagerrated a fare bit abouit 3000 years

LewsTherin

wateva you dirty maori lover

youwish

We have alot of ppl here with one track minds,Maoris were here first an in business long b4 other cultures establish them self in new zealand, our ancestors traded near and far Maoris first trade in export an import was with P&O Shipping, an this is part of the reason why most of P&O vessel have Maori names, now how many of you real kiwi's new that,farming was also an area that Maori had knowledge in, but ops along come the one ppl factor they decided to form a government, introduce new laws to suite them self,an there was no consultation with Maori, land rates forced on maori without them knowing and land taken for unpaid rates, now the ppl of today live off the riches of our lost, the only thing about this is, it has also happen in other countries that were invaded the question is can maori and pakeha work together to correct the past ? ( for all you Don Bash followers how much do you think your passed and present government has made in land rate since 1840 ? cost Maori ate been given a penny)so much for one ppl ?

b_boy

My confidence in a more tolerant society has plummeted in reading some of these clearly racist posts. A thought for all of you making supremely generalised statements about

appale

My confidence in a more tolerant world has plummeted in reading some of the quite clearly racist comments expressed in the posts above. I offer a counter to some of those supremely generalised comments: theft, laziness, violence can be found in all cultures the world over and are not confined to specific racial groups. Indeed, Europeans are not a naturalised, superior race. As the comments above quite clearly prove.

appalled

Isn't it interesting when facts are placed in front of ppl some believe they are racist comments but in reality the truth hurts

b_boy

Isn't free speech wonderful! A good mixture of responses from the left wing, politically correct, indoctrinated youth that don't have a thought of their own through to the outright racists that are the result of all this social engineering.

I don't have the answers to all the maori problems and perhaps it's too late anyway, but I am willing to share my thoughts on the subject.

It shouldn't be considered maori bashing or racist to point out the facts that maori are predominantly uneducated, suffer from poor health, significantly contribute to crime and are a huge fiscal burden on NZ. It is after all, their doing. I know, I know, white man gave them KFC etc, etc... that is just so lame.

So what do we do about them? This is a difficult question when they themselves don't know. What do they want? I don't know but it is clearly obvious that money and special treatment isn't the answer. Things have got much worse since Labour have had two terms of vote catching. I really think that the answer will have to be quite radical which won't go down well, after all it will require hard work on their behalf but after all, aren't they warriors?

It's like the famine in Africa. All those agencies crippled by their own bureaucracy pleading for money to feed all the starving children. Yes it is very sad (our family have sponsored a child) but has anyone asked the hard question why these africans choose to have 8 children when they can't even feed themselves? Isn't reform and education the only logical, long term answer? Meantime, their presidents are driving around in Mercedes wearing $5000 suits. Oh the tribal system - sound familiar?

I'm sorry, but the only people that are responsible for maori are maoris. If they want to move forward and be part of OUR country (what are we all on temporary visas?) then they must change their ways. Simple. If you really care about their people and preservation of their culture then just leave them alone to sort it out for themselves. No hand outs, no special treatment. It only makes matters worse and breeds resentment. As for all their grievances, come on! What exactly? So we took some land - big deal. Colonisation happened the world over. Get over it. If it weren't for the english it would have been someone else.

I could go on for ever, but we've heard it all before. I for one am disgusted in what this country has become and it will get much worse. And I'm not just referring to the maori problem. I can honestly say that I wouldn't want to raise my children in this country. Can you imagine what the place will be like in 10 - 20 years from now? Crystal ball gaze and take a look at South Africa. Yes, I am sadly leaving NZ for a brighter future... and go some of you might say. Fine, just like all those other kiwi's that our horrid, self righteous, criminal, man hating academic prime minister wants back to pay for all this!

As for Don Brash, yes he is a politician (how profound of you) but he certainly cares more about NZ than that beast of a woman, Helen Clark.

My parting words to the Kiwi’s that are left here;

1) While Socialism is good in theory, it has never worked in practice. NZ is a good example.
2) Try having some faith in mankind.
3) Working hard and making money is not a criminal offence.
4) We’re not on the farm anymore.
5) Kofi Annan is a cheeky darky (corrupt)
6) Be kind to your mother.

Leaving

hear hear Leaving what you say is true, why is it that only white people can be racist, but the darker race can say whatever they want and we have to be culture sensitive??? what about our culture???
I was told that once that "only black people can go into that room" at work as they all lunch there, can you imagine if I said that!! yet we have to accept whatever they say.
The English saved the Maori's from the French, that is why they signed the treaty because they needed the English protection as the French were attacking them. And I learnt this from school, not pulling it out of my ass like Mr "3000", whatever.

And also LewsTherin try 400 years why don't you go to the museum and do some research before you start shooting off your mouth, or are you so ignorant that you don't need fact to back up your words.

pippy

sterotypes are sterotypes for a reason, they become that way because the majority of the race is that way
eg asians are smart
(they are smart because they study hard)

freestyler

leaving that sound like a long winded story makes me wonder if your and ex South Africa white who's come to our shores to stir the pot ? its good you are exiting our great country don't let the door hit you on the way out lol,As for pippy ( The English saved the Maori's from the French,)what history book did you dig that out of it show how much you kown about New Zealand, on a scale of 1-10 I give you O lol,hey freestyler here's a good one whites are right because there white lol what eva,use remind me of the three monkeys hear no evil see no evil speak no evil,but like to talk a load of rubbsih,

b_boy

No b-boy, I'm not an ex South African. As for stirring the pot, I think the government and some of your own bet me to that.

You seem like a relatively smart person (okay you can't spell and your grammar is poor, which incidentally, supports one of the facts about maori) so I want to ask you a couple of questions which I hope you will think about seriously before answering.

1) Since being colonised, are you proud of what maori have achieved as a race?

2) What are these achievements exactly?

3) What are maori people doing to reduce the high rate of crime, teenage pregnancy, poor health, dependency on welfare and education?

4) Why do you think maori people aren't responsible or accountable for their own actions?

As for leaving, you like most NZers (whites included) just don't get it. Have you read the papers today about the brain drain? I employ 40 people and generate 100's of thousands of dollars annually for the government, which a significant amount of that is wasted on your people.

At this rate, you might just get what you want (whatever that is). NZ will become another pacific island isolated from the rest of the world. You'll be free to roam, rape and pillage again. Then when it's completely destroyed, perhaps Australia will pick up the pieces and turn this into a great country like it once was.

Finally, where did you get your PC from? LOL!!!

Leaving

Im Am appauled by the obscenity used on this sight. More Maori bashing again. I believe these people are lacking self esteem and knowledge of our history, it is because of this very mentality that Aotearoa has become "New Zealand". Nigger they call us, thieves and cannibals again I believe that it is only a reflection of themselves. I have not come across any talk of Honky or white trash at all. I am Pakeha and Maori but if that is the way Pakeha respond to Maori I am ashamed to have Pakeha blood in my viens. How can we ever get on in this country if people are allowed to write rubbish un-intelegently. The history of the Treaty of Waitangi clearly states just who are the oppressor and the thieves of land to the value of up to 100 million hectares of land and now the Govt wants the seashores and everything in it because they have consumed all the land in this country. Now bullying for lunch money or picking a fight is not right: but it does not give anyone a right to defame another race or person. It sickens the pit of my stomach to know that there are people in this country who hide behind their e-mail system and make racist comments but when confronted face to face crumbble and have absolutely nothing to say until they get in front of their PC and type away all the messed up thing they can come up with. It's no wonder you get picked on Richard and Susan. Keep that attitute KARMA will come and bite you up the BUM.

Aroha

People who say Maori are thieves, canibals etc... are so ignorrant and afraid of the treaty because they can't handle the truth starring them in the face when they perhaps have read the Treay of Waitangi themselves. The truth does hurt which creates fear in people which prompts racist comments. It is sooo sad that we have to be subjected to this kind of crap. I think these people should go back to school and gain some knowledge about history that they have perhaps forgotten about (English History)it aint half sqeaky clean; my racist friends. Did your ancestor King Henry not chop off his wives heads because they could not bare him a son? did your ancestor not have intentions of stealling land and a peoples language right around the globe? Were your ancestors not canibals too? Please feel free to debate my comments. However!!my opinion on Don's One people speech is another ploy to gain supremacy over Maori once again, well he can shove that where the sun dont shine along with anything else he may have in store for "Maori" This man is just another racist statistic who himself cannot bare to have the truth dangling in front of his face, he knows Maori have been at the raw end of the spectrum from day one after the signing of the treaty; a document created by his ancestors to minipulate and Im sure it was a premeditated peace of paper as well to take full control of Maori and to take this "beautiful, unharmed by pollutants, Full of minerals and goodness in the soil and air of this land AOTEAROA".
So dont you think that we will be forever divided in opinion on whose right and whose wrong? are there any solutions to this problem? Maybe not but I know whose side I want to be on when it comes to judgement day most certainly not yours my racist friends richard,susan and greg.

Aroha

I agree with Freestyler there; stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. And don't pretend the Maori were all holding hands and dancing in the daisies before the English arrived - they warred amongst themselves and, yes, did practice cannibalism amongst other things. And don't try to tell me that "your people were warlike too" because I'm not the one denying the past. In the end, the colonisation of New Zealand was inevitable. It if wasn't the English it'd be the French, and with that thought I can't help but dream that you were all arguing in French and I was far away without the slightest notion that such debates even existed. And I'm sure some of you would love me to be far away, but that's beside the point.

Why is it that Maori people can never lower themselves to being part of "One People"? Europeans will never let go of their culture. We'll never be assimilated, and we know it. It is not us who are scared, it is obviously the Maori people, otherwise they wouldn't cling so desperately to their culture. If their culture was so important to them, it would always be a part of their lives, wherever they lived and whatever job they had. Enough of this sitting around, complaining that a culture you never knew has been taken away from you and therefore somehow you are unable to listen in class and then do your homework, then later either get a student loan and go to university, or smarten yourself up and go for a job interview. It is really not so complicated, and it all starts with taking some responsibility for youselves.

You also seem to forget that Maori themselves are racist. Just as racist as the Europeans have ever been, when it came to Asian migration. The Maori didn't want those "yellows", as they called them, to invade our land (yes, it suddenly became OUR land - the land of the Maori AND European). The Europeans brought sickness, sure, but they also saved a lot of Maori from death-by-club through the introduction of guns.

There's no use denying the truth, Maori people and now Pacific Islanders are a burden to New Zealand's progress. And we WILL become "just another pacific island nation". After reading this you probably think I'm racist, but I'm not, I'm just human. Maori people are human too. I believe that the only way to cure this damned land is to stop treating Maori as though they're somehow unable to look after themselves, and treat them as REAL equals. Real equals work just as hard as the rest and don't have special rights over seabeds or whatever it will be next week. If we keep telling them they need special benefits, they're going to keep on needing special benefits. We need to treat Maori as though they're normal, civilised beings, which they are, who can work for themselves and be successful, which they can. Some of the comments above, while partly truthful, are also pretty disgusting and don't reflect well on the apparent 'civilised' demeanor of Europeans.

And stop calling us "Pakehas". We're Europeans, for god's sake. We call you your name, you call us ours. That's equality.

NZer

first of all, i am maori, and am appauled at what is said in this forum, but who wouldn't be when it is their race getting attacked. Now you don't want to be called a pakeha, that is fine, we don't like being called niggas as some ignorant person in this forum refers to us. I live in Gisborne, and talking of unruly people, the PAKEHA or the EUROPEANS, are the ones here that are downtown in the middle of the night drinking on the streets, acting the asses, and our neighbours, are PAKEHA, EUROPEAN, we are surrounded by them, and they are the unruly ones. My point is this, we are all New Zealanders, and in our township, which being on the East Coast, you would think is flooded with us Maori, and yet everywhere you look they all look we have Asians and Indians, and Islanders. It doesn't matter what race anymore because there are too god damn many to keep up. Hell I have a friend that is a Asian, and because I was ignorant at the time, I introduced him as Chinese, and he wasn't even...There are just too many to even care what they are...they're just New Zealanders now. Well, with that off my chest...I would like to say...TO HELL WITH DON BRASH...he should have been drowned at birth.

emma

Everyone is born with the same chance of success, you don't need a rich family and expensive schooling to achieve it, so why can't certain people in new zealand stop complaining about what everyone else is doing to them and get off their own asses and haul themselves up, look at the mad butcher, he came to new zealand with nothing and now he owns a chain of stores and is supposedly one of new zealands 50 most powerful people, all based entirely on his own merits, he had no extra priveledges given to him and he managed to make a success of himself, at the end of the day if you really want to do something you can, I know that sounds idealistic, and there will be people reading this saying, yeah whatever try doing that with no job and three kids, but getting handouts isn't helping. If these Maori and pacific Islanders coming thru now dont get better attitudes they wont be able to succeed themselves, because of the limitations they (and thier parents) put on themselves in this acceptance of the idea that they have been hard done by and are entitled to something that the majority of new zealand are not not because of any hardships put on them by the europeans, I just cant understand it, I am a middle class kiwi, 24 yrs old, white and earning around 50k, anybody in new zealand could do this, I joined the Air force and did my training thru there( which was free to join, and I got paid to learn), and after that I now work in the Avaition industry as a productive member of New Zealand. Basically what I am trying to get at is that I beleive attitude is more important than race or socio economic boundaries and until New Zealand attacks the root of this problem there will be no change for the good, I beleive there should be no special treatment for any person in New Zealand based on race or descent, (that's fair and equal isn't it) as this breeds jealousy and contempt. Please feel free to debate my points.

Freestyler

[QUOTE=hoogie]No the majority of maoris are bad ,Maoris make up 10% of our population and yet most crimes are committed by them in this country.

Ask yourself this question honestly!

When you see on the news a terrible murder or/and rape that has been committed and you havnt seen the suspect ...HOW MANY OF YOU THINK IN THE BACK OF YOUR MIND "I BET ITS A MAORI"

Now i know if your honest you would have answered "YES" , the problem with this country is that you guys are to wussy to admit we have a problem with maoris ,even though one exsists you wont admit it.

Just keep turning a blind eye and pretending we dont have a problem, thatll fix evertything eh guys :loco:[/QUOTE]


I agree with what a little bit of what your saying.. i mean the crime thing is true (**** look at the stats nz website and see about prison population)

I would not say the majoritys of maoris are bad.... just... more than white dudes.. :P

I mean... im sure alot of us either at school.. in town... 4am in the morning.. whenever has been "Confronted" by some rehab going "west side yeah yeah yo yo are u looking at me fool ?" and MOST Of the time that person WILL be a maori..

I mean white dudes commit crime.. no doubt about that.. but more maori do... and they share alot less of the population % than the white guys...

Ok dodgy things i been involved in..

- Getting in a MAJOR fight.. stopping a guy trying to daterape a girl.. (Maori)
- In auckland someone trying to steal my uncles car in queenstreet while i was in it at like around 1am (Holden HSV) that lead to like a 1 hour chase (Maori)
- Getting in a fight Walking in town (Auckland again) and having 4 big maori dudes come up to me and say (What u looking at u white boy) When all i was doing was walking.


ON THE OTHER HAND..

Last night.. in wellington.. went clubbing... prolly went up to about 20 maoris during the night.. did the whole handshake thing.. had a chat... and they were awsome guys..

So there are to many things u can get outta this

- All maoris are dodgy ? NOPE
- More maoris than white guys are dodgy ? YEP
- Maori people are prolly one of the most respected native people of a country around the world ? YEP
- In the entire world our country has the most peacefull and best relationships between native people of the country and the europeans ? YEP (Think australia.. think america.. think south america.. think south africa..)
- And GENERALLY a maori people nice people ? Yes (Depends where in the country thou)


And i think the "Where in nz" thing is true..

For example.. Maoris in Wellington/most of south island seem to be a hell of a lot nicer than ones in auckland...

So to end this..

I have alot of maori mates.. and ask them what i just wrote.. and they would agree.. ask lots of maoris and they would agree exactly what i said so i would not call it a racist comment... i would call it a observation


So what you are saying that all Maori's from Auckland are dodgy - lol

I have some Maori friends and they are great people, but its the 10% or greater I dunno who give them the bad name.

In all fairness you should look at it this way..

If the British hadn't of annexed New Zealand, someone else would of, ie the FRENCH, the frogs wanted New Zealand, hell they sent a French Bishop or whatever (Pompallior was his name I think) to NZ FFS, if the French had their wicked way with NZ there would be no Maori's they would either be dead, dying or all slaves.

random

I resent being called "pakeha" , we should call maoris "hories" , and maoris are a pathetic race of bludgers and thugs, you can stick maori language, you know where.

Euro Person

Maoris should thank their lucky tiki, it was British who came to this now racially divided New-Zealand first, because if it had been the French or Spanish, there would be no treaty and no Maoris left alive, British are fair and a very tolerant honest people.
So all you maoris who think you are HARD DONE BY , think again, maoris have had handouts since the 1930s, eg: maori loans etc, whereas other NZers had to struggle on their own,,,,,,ohhhh you poor Maoris,,,what a bloody JOKE!,, NO MORE HANDOUTS,, STUFF THE TREATY,,MR BRASH IS RIGHT!!!

Paul the Pakeha

handouts since 1930, hook me up your source Paul the Pakeha

1847-1975
There were a series of legal actions by parliaments and the courts which rejected the lagality of the treaty. In 1877 a judge said that to have rights you have to be civilised. The treaty was invalid because treaties can only be signed by sovereign nations..... When around 1835, Maori were accepted as a sovereign nation after the signing of the Decleration of Independance ... and no not the american one morons.

So if your talking government handouts regarding treaty, no way were there handouts coming around 1930s when the treaty had been rejected up until 1975 when the redefinition period came in and the government had to realise treaty would not go away.


========================================

hey i got an idea...

lets have a civil war, sort out our differences like men
pakehas vs the hories

LewzTherin

concerning NZer
Quote: 'And stop calling us "Pakehas". We're Europeans, for god's sake. We call you your name, you call us ours. That's equality.'

This is a discussion about New Zealand being one nation, being one people.. about all of us being New Zealanders, not maori and non-maori.

You have just supported the anti-brash argument by alienating yourself.

LewzTherin

Everyone is born with the same chance of success, you don't need a rich family and expensive schooling to achieve it, so why can't certain people in new zealand stop complaining about what everyone else is doing to them and get off their own asses and haul themselves up, look at the mad butcher, he came to new zealand with nothing and now he owns a chain of stores and is supposedly one of new zealands 50 most powerful people, all based entirely on his own merits, he had no extra priveledges given to him and he managed to make a success of himself, at the end of the day if you really want to do something you can, I know that sounds idealistic, and there will be people reading this saying, yeah whatever try doing that with no job and three kids, but getting handouts isn't helping. If these Maori and pacific Islanders coming thru now dont get better attitudes they wont be able to succeed themselves, because of the limitations they (and thier parents) put on themselves in this acceptance of the idea that they have been hard done by and are entitled to something that the majority of new zealand are not not because of any hardships put on them by the europeans, I just cant understand it, I am a middle class kiwi, 24 yrs old, white and earning around 50k, anybody in new zealand could do this, I joined the Air force and did my training thru there( which was free to join, and I got paid to learn), and after that I now work in the Avaition industry as a productive member of New Zealand. Basically what I am trying to get at is that I beleive attitude is more important than race or socio economic boundaries and until New Zealand attacks the root of this problem there will be no change for the good, I beleive there should be no special treatment for any person in New Zealand based on race or descent, (that's fair and equal isn't it) as this breeds jealousy and contempt. Please feel free to debate my points

freestyler

I agree with freestyler, look at the KFC man.
he was 50 years old dead broke when he came up with a great idea to sell his recipe for fried chicken, now age is a lot bigger problem than race when it comes with work.
He went to over 50 different people to sell his idea before he became successful. Attitude is what made him successed and never giving up. I am inspired by his determination and drive at 50!!! thats impressive it makes you think that anything is possible. Race is just an excuse I don't know why it is brought up all the time. everyone has the ablitity to succeed.

poppy

oh my god b boy you are so dumb I learnt about the french attacking the Maori's in Manukau Uni Tec in a class based on "the Treaty of Waitangi" so who's the moron that doesn't know their facts. Try thinking before you open your mouth and a Maori teacher told me this.

pippy

I feel sorry for those one's who have obviously missed the point about being 'one people'. There seems to be alot of misguided comments based obviously on the 6 o'clock news where the local black power or mongrel mob appears before the court on some criminal charge. What about the national front? I hear no comment about the genocide of the Aborigines in the past from early english settlers to Australia. I feel the treaty had to be made because Mr Busby could not subdue the Moari in warfare so had to use the legal system of the British courts. Clever thinking in my books. I just think that this issue will go round and round in circles for generation after generation. The world today is ruled by big business. I work in the coporate system for a big company and yes it is a shame to not see many 'brown' faces around the office, but that is not to say Moaris are dumb. The 'brown' faces I do work with in other departments however are top in their field of expertise. Until the treaty was recognized in 1975 the damage to the Moari as a nation was already done. hell, it wasn't until 1965 that the law was ammended to accomodate the Moari because as it was illegal to speak the language and as a single Moari male you could be arreseted and run out of town!! I dont base my thoughts on the past, I dont live in the past, and in order for people to understand that living in the past is detremental to ones health we as a nation will always have misguided racial comments rather than healthy debate. It is wise to accept the past and then move on. I personally am proud to be of Moari heritage. I know it's wrong to steal. I know it is wrong to harm my fellow man. I also know it's wrong to base my thinking on what someone else does. I am me and I don't care if a European,asian,Indian,moari or whatever race you are turns around and threatens me and my charactor, that's not the whole race doing it to me. It is the person that is standing in front of me doing this. So until certain people in society recognize that you own your own actions and have control of your own destiny than this country will boom as one people. Kia kaha

Manu

My mate Manu showed me this site at work today. It reminded me of a yarn I heard it goes something like this- An old indian chief sat in his hut on the reservation, smoking a cerimonial pipe and eyeing two U.S workers sent to interview him.
"Chief two eagles" said one official "You have observed the white man for 90 years and seen his wars and his technological advances, you've seen his wars and the damage he's done"
The chief nodded.
The official continues "Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?"
The chief thought for a minute and looked at the officials and calmly replied "When white man found land, Indians were running it. No taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, woman did all the work, Medicine man free, Indian man spent all day hunting, fishing, and all night having sex"
The Indian chief leaned back and smiled....." only white man dumb enough to think he could improve a system like that" :o)

Tawhai

funny thing to say Tawhai when you are using a computer!!! The world changes every day so deal with it, the Asians were well ahead of the white man with their money, and trade in the old days. So there was more than one race that was trying to improve itself, don't use modern technology than talk about the good old days as you come across as a hypocrite. Why don't you just compare it to times when we lived in caves and clubbed women.
Also Manu the Bristish made a treaty because they were so impressed by the Maori's having a society it showed they weren't savages, I doubt it was because the Maoris were so ingenious in their warfare, hell Maoris had sharpened stone and sticks while the bristish had guns. I have Maori heritage as well, but I don't hide behind it, I have never had a hand out for anything and I am proud that I have achieved everything on my own without using the past as an excuse. Did anyone see Campbell Live?? In Rotorua over 80% of crimes are committed by Maoris that is sad to see but it is factual. Maoris come across as angry agressive violent people. Fact.

pippy

yes some maori are aggressive and so are some asians so are some europeans. In fact you must be aggressive because you have maori in you. My point is- You are your own person and you control your destiny regardless of race or creed. I was shocked to see such misguided raciast remarks from a country that is supposedly a chilled out laid back nation. I feel everyone should just take a good hard look at themselves because if you are going to go through life blaming people for social and economic differences then you are not going to go far. Have a look at the 2-10 year old beggers living on the streets of Turkey in the middle of winter with no shoes and no medical care. Look at the effects of rape and pillage of big business has had on such lands that are quite self sufficient. Closer to home look at the forestries and the depleating numbers of wildlife and sealife!! Why? Because the mighty dollar rules, thats why!! If we as a nation of KIWIS dont get togeather then this coulntry is going to be taken over by not maori or europians or asians or any other race, it is going to be taken over by corperations with a mighty sword that will limit you and I free access to the camping sites and the forestries beach area and anything else that money can buy. In most europian countries you cannot sit on the beach and eat fish and chips because its private and you have to pay. You have to eat in the place provided for you and eat what they sell you. Growing up in Queenstown is a prime example. As a youngster we used to be able to knock on a door if we needed access to the lake to fish. Now you knock on the door and it is either "no way" or the house is owned and only occupied for 2-6 weeks of the year and the caretaker will not grant access as his job is to keep people off private property. While we all bitch and moan about the bloody hard up maoris and the hard up europians. Big money man is rubbing his hands together and hoping we will continue this way while he sneaks in the back door and robs our beautiful country of its resources.

Manu

Goodness sake pippy "chill out" take the story either way. I love the inventions of the computor the cell phone(god cant live without it) I aggree with my collegue. I go to the family marae up north and we seem to be a very close family. Most of us have been through uni and some of us have been through the school of hard knocks. I would assume that it is common in most families anywhere in any country. Just because my anscestor is one of the first signitures on the treaty dose not give me any special right or favours when it comes to how I live my life in this society. I pay of a mortgage, recieve above average income, juggle my sport around family commitments. I just cant some how find time to intimidate or rob people though. May be I am not Maori after all!!

Tawhai Kawati

yes Manu I am agressive, towards Maori's when your mother is beaten and raped by her Maori uncle and grandfather at 5 years old til she was 16, when your brothers were beaten by their Maori father almost every day of their childhood and when your uncle was killed at 12months because his black father hit him too hard because he was crying.

The fact is this is why there are SO many problems because SO much damage has already been caused, you are obviously very lucky to grow up with no life problems or abuse so yes you are white, my father is white and there is no rape no violence no murders on his side of the family, so yes I will judge by what I have seen. And try and live as white as possible like you do because obviously your life is better because of it.

pippy

Who are you guys trying to fool tawhai and manu? No one is saying every single maori is a thief and rapist, but you can't try to disguise the fact that maori people are more likely to commit these crimes than any other race in new zealand. They do have a more aggressive "what are you looking at" attitude then any other race in new zealand. These are not opinions , these are facts, they have been bought up again and again but evry time someone stands up and says, "hey look at this, somethings not right here" they are branded a bigot and racist.

freestyler

so sorry, last time I looked I was Maori. Shame I don't fit into the role that the people think All Maori's are aggressive. Take care

Manu

Its a shame that dr brash fails to understand that Maori had already declared new zealand independent via declaration of confederation and independence 1835 which ultimatly resulted in an alliance between the infant state and the british empire, you cant have a treaty with a country that doesnt exist. This only to protect the ordinary people of new zealand the native maori to protect there sovereignty, right of cheiftainship and all there terrortory but also in affect civilising them into a modernising world also granting them the same rights as british subjects but not actually being british subjects but there own, this to protect colonials of the time. since it was the governments of age that have been proven to be thieves and murderers destroying the very people the crown had sworn to protect, can you blame maori for rebelling against a system that has for so long disinfranchised and underminded them. It would be an insult to be regarded as ONE people with a race who used illegal immigration to democratically seize this nation, EUROPEAN NEW ZEALANDERS! stand up and be accounted for.

freedom fighter 4 supressed indigenous peoples aka

Freedom fighter needs to get HIS facts straight.My forefathers paid with good quility nails and blankets for this land so he/she needs to stop complaining and get off his fat assed high horse and get a job like the rest of us.Dole bludging bastard.

sic of crap

real funny sic of crap, ignorent people like you is the reason why most natives become racist, i suggest you take a crash course in history to learn the truth about your murdering thieving and raping ancestors and go back to the land were God put you. By the way i've worked hard most of my adult life, educated in history english and the treaty of waitangi also i spend alot of my spare time working with troubled youth and have found that it is your kind that is responsible for were natives are at today due to suppression and greed so if you are pissed off about whats going on ask yourself who's really to blame.

freedom fighter 4 supressed indigenous peoples

Pippy, honestly, You need to get some phsycological help, you have issue's that need serious attention. Go and tell a shrink your problems. No use moaning to a pc, like that's going to help.

Honky

All I have to say is...The Declaration of independence...why?? Becauce it was signed in 1835 by a group of Moari cheifs and King William which rightfully declares the Independence of our country, which is hereby constituef and declared to be an Independent State, under the designation of the United Tribes of New Zealand. All SOVEREIGN power and authority within the territories of the United Tribes of New Zealand is hereby declared to reside entirely and exclusively in the hereditary Cheifs and head of Tribes in there collective capacity to exist, nor any function of Goverment to be exercised - within the said territories, unless by person appointed by them.
So this legal Document....what happened to it?? Ill tell u, When your queen what ever her name was Victoria I think sent her men over here with the treaty of waitangi and i hate to say it my foolish ancestors signed it, the Declaration of independence was pretty much keep hidin Why? Because the Treaty gave the white people power over moari and the Declaration gave moari the rights to self govern there own land and people and gave the moari the status of being Sovereign.... which pretty much meant that the moari people are not superior to the queen nor is the queen superior to the moari people we are equal...

Reg

And why was the declaration never taught at school??? Because its the pakeha schooling system and they did want moari to learn of The Declaration of Independence... No all they wanted the moari to learn of was The Treaty of waitangi, Which of cause gave them the power over moari. But im telling you its all gonna change soon.. rightfully the Declaration over rides the treaty of waitangi and its gonna show soon..

reg

And why was the declaration never taught at school??? Because its the pakeha schooling system and they did want moari to learn of The Declaration of Independence... No all they wanted the moari to learn of was The Treaty of waitangi, Which of cause gave them the power over moari. But im telling you its all gonna change soon.. rightfully the Declaration over rides the treaty of waitangi and its gonna show soon..

reg

Thanks Don! Look what you dragged out of the gutter? Won't the National party be powerful made up of ignorant redneck racists. Sorry Don, but I have no desire to be 'one people' with some of the low lifes crusin this forum.

Demi

I still can’t believe you’ve got these people out there calling Maori uneducated, yet still class themselves as Europeans, Don’t know if you checked on a map, but New Zealand sure isn’t part of Europe.

Tamahere

I also find it interesting that when you travel overseas to say a place such as London, the steps white New Zealanders will take to try and express some time of “indigenous” identity in order to separate themselves from the English the Australians and the South Africans. The sad fact is other than the good old all black jersey they have nothing that differentiates them and are intern grouped into the category of Australian, South Afican or English.This happens because all other countries, say European etc cannot hear the difference in English accents so cannot tell where they are from exactly. So you know what happens next? They draw on aspects of Maori culture such as wearing greenstone or bone, clothing with Maori design, saying Maori words or singing Maori songs and as sad as it seems, doing the haka. Believe me I have personally witnessed many of these pathetic attempts in overseas countries of white new Zealanders trying to express some type of individual identity. I also find it interesting that on the return home all the things that they were wearing or doing overseas they now cease, they seem to lose their greenstone, clothing and cease haka performances. Is there an explanation for this? what is exactly the culture of a white New Zealander? Have you thought what you would say if you were in a situation where you were asked? And if so, why would so many revert to Maori culture when you have your own? I have seen first hand many New Zealanders overseas tussle with this question.

Tamahere

Kia ora Tamahere, I totaly agree with your point of view. Being a maori living here in Australia I have also witnessed first hand pakeha trying to identify themselves by using our bone, greenstone and clothing that identifies themselves as being part of the New Zealand culture. I use to think it was great until I said "kia ora" to a fellow New Zealander who had a greenstone on who in turn tried to pretend he didn't hear me. It makes me laugh that they dont want to associate with maori but they want to use our culture to make them feel like they belong somewhere. These people give a bad name to those good pakeha who live in New Zealand and out. I personally feel sorry for the white New Zealanders because thay have no culture and no identity. If you think about it its true, they are not English or European because they were not born there and are mostly 4th or 5th generation born N.Zers and they are not true N.zers either because you have to be Maori to be that. They also have no culture for the same reasons. So to all the people listening to the garbage that some anti - maori people put out there just think about the above and just feel sorry for them.
Kia ora, kia ora.

Melany

melany "they are not true N.zers either because you have to be Maori to be that. They also have no culture for the same reasons" what kind of crapola is this? Do you not realise that the moari people arrived in this country just like everybody else? They weren't the first here either so what makes NZ yours?

freestylin

Kia ora e hoa ma

It has been very interesting to read through the comments on Andreas's initial post.

The 'one nation' Brash debate is stirring strong emotive responses. However, it pays to look beyond the surface and see what Brash is really trying to achieve. Brash is using the Maori/Pakeha debate for one reason only - to get votes. His "One people" mantra is a complete red herring that diverts attention away from the key issues that should really concern people i.e., health, education, employment, housing and resource use.

With reference to some of the comments above about who is and isn't Maori, being Maori isn't about eurocentric blood quantum stuff regarding percentages and so forth - if you've got the toto and know your whakapapa then you're Maori.

Many of the comments posted above are extremely rascist and ignorant in nature, and I guess some of this is due to the education system in New Zealand having denied generations of children knowledge of this country's history - a sad fact of colonisation. Studying the American Civil War seemed to be more important than learning anything about the Treaty of Waitangi or the confiscation of lands in Taranaki. It is only until fairly recently that more factual and balanced accounts of the past have been recorded.

Brash certainly hit a raw nerve with his Orewa speech. Think about what he is really trying to achieve and look behind his rascist rhetoric. Also remember that the media is a powerful tool that can be used to shape the ideas and opinions of the masses - so take those negative news items with a big grain of salt. If television helps shapes your view of the world then have a look at Maori television and Tangata Pasifika and you will see that there are many good things going on in Maori and Pacific Island communities around the country.

Kia kaha, kia toa, kia manawanui...

Disappointed...

Well freestylin I knew my comments would stir the pot but dear you need to get your head out of books that state that maori were not the first here and get with it. Yes we did arrive here on waka but we were the first here I assure you of that. Everything you may have learned ( probably from pakeha teachers ) about the fact that there were inhabitants here before Maori were all kaka. We are the kaitiaki and indigenous in New Zealand and there is nothing you can do or say that will change that. Ka aroha kare.

Melany

Kia ora Richard. Well kare how about you learn how to spell first, its Ethiopian and buggers O.K.
Money that the government are using as we speak is from a loan from the world bank. When obtaining this loan Helen Clark had to put something up as collateral AND QUESS THAT SHE TRIED TO USE!!!! N.Z Land!!!!! AND QUESS WHAT SHE WAS TOLD!!!!! "You can not use this land, it is Soveregn land it belongs to the N.Z indigeonous of the country MAORI!!!!!"
So in order for her to get the cash she had to make part of the loan "Sovereign dept". Which means with out maori no money, no money no benefits. So dear Richard its our money thats funding the benefits anyway.
BUT! I must say I dont like seeing my people sitting around waiting for hand out's either but its the pakeha system that has allowed this and has put my people in this predicament in the first place.
And personally I would trade you and your people for anyone in this world. Who are you to say you would rather have another race than Maori YOU are standing on my land, if YOU don't like it get out!!!

Melany

Sorry it was guess not quess.....my bad.

Melany

Dear Little man, with a little mind...

Besides your pitiful attempt to demean my linguistic ability,
I see no come back with the greater issue that is at hand, concerning my last entry, which has obviously left you, not only dumbfounded, with nothing to say, but has also created a sad weakness in your ability to combat me on an intellectual level.

So in the mean time, little man, please do find something worthy of my reply, and quit wasting my time on nonsense, that is far beneath me, it makes me laugh....

Love always...

Sovereign of the Land...

Melany

Just a quick note to all my sovereign people.

The power is in the DOI of New Zealand 1835 ( Declaration Of Independence ).

There is a saying in law, " First In Time, Best In Law".The DOI was written before the Treaty Of Waitangi, and this is what will set the record straight. Read it and upskill yourselves. Our tipuna did not sell our land for smokes and blankets like we have been told, they protected it and the DOI is proof of that. They had this document written for future generations which was witnessed by representatives of the King and sighed by him and James Busby. It is a true document and is recognised by the United Nations, they are just waiting for our people to use it. Lets get going people!.
"E kore koe e ngaro,he kakano koe i ruia mai i Rangiatea".
"You will never be lost, for you are born of greatness".

Arohanui,
Sovereign of the Land...

Melany

Kia ora people....

Just had a bit of a read thru everything here....mmmm....kind of sad don't you all reakon?
I am part Maori/Pakeha and as a child growing up in New Zealand I was always told of how the Maori were useless and hopeless....now this was by my Pakeha Father and Pakeha step-mother...How demoralizing it is growing up in a house like that? I now live in Australia and it has taken me to move here to recongnize that I should be proud of who I am and what I represent being a Maori....and yes there are some negativities expressed in regards to the Maori people but hey thats with everyone...mankind...
To all you that deny your Maori Heritage...learn it and understand it....then you will know that you are truly blessed to have Maori blood run thru your veins...
Do not DENY yourself of who you are and what you represent...PRIDE AND DIGNITY was stripped from our people...our country was functioning better before the Pakeha came to Aotearoa...we had our own government, trade , banking system...no one was better off than another....everything that was done was for the good of the tribe...everyone had food, shelter clothing...and then the Pakeha see this glorious land from a distance and decide they want a peice of it.....
Now the only reason the Declaration Of Independence Of New Zealand was drafted up was because the Maori people were concerned about the welfare of the land and its resources...which were being exploited by the Pakeha...And our Tupuna wanted to keep our land and resources safe for our future generations...of not only Maori but all that lived in Aotearoa...So all you that are haters...I challenge you to READ the D.O.I and rally take in what it says....Maori, Pakeha, Islander, Asian whatever it is there for us all...And with the Declaration Of Independence comes the unravelling of all the lies we have been taught in History....that the Maori were stupid and dumb....which they so weren't...
When a people are exploited and suppressed of course it is going to effect the coming generations...It is up to us as Maori to rectify the issues at hand....AND WE WILL...
We are beautiful people and culture as all other Indeginous Cultures...We are Kaitaki of Aotearoa that means we are protectors Of Aotearoa including the people, resources etc... that are in it....As people (everyone) we have the right to know the truth...don't settle for what we are taught in school..., have a true look at HISTORY and question it don't take anything at face value...The settlers government has driven the wedge between the pakeha and Maori...why??? That I can not answer...

Arohanui to you all
And may Peace, Unity and Harmony bestowe upon Aotearoa

Andrea....Maori and Proud

By the way...


Kia ora Melany my Sovereign of the Land Friend...lol and is that our Reg?


Arohanui

Andrea....Maori and Proud

Sure okay it's your land no problem but how is that addressing the issues of high crime rates amongst maori and pacific islanders? As another poster addressed earlier about the type of people displayed again and again in statistics and on police 10-7 and motorway patrol? These are the people whoi give everybody else in their race a bad name and they make it so easy for people like don brash to drive a stake between pakeha and poly and moari. These people have no care about their culture, ancestors or heritage which is a real shame and I think that is the main issue, how to get young people to identify more with who they really are and be proud of their pacific or maori heritage.

Freestyler

Tautoko!! tautoko!! I support the point you are making freestyler.
But this issue has no one answer or reason to why it is maori and poly's who are commiting most crimes. I have also asked myself the same question.

My personal point of view is that if a human being has been raised to understand who they are, and to be proud of them selves then they are more likely to be a more well rounded person or a successful person. But if you have been sterio typed as being useless, hopeless or fucken niggers then from negative will come negative.

Myself I was lucky to have been brought up speaking my language and having a family who loves being who we are as Maori. I consider myself to be one of the luckiest people on this planet with the most beautiful culture God has given man. But not all my people share this passion because they were not raised with these views.

I think this would be the case for all man kind. If anyone was belittled by another because of who they are then they two will have a negative out look on life and who they are as a person.
For example, my granmothers father was beaten and strapped at school by his teacher for speaking maori on the school grounds. The result of this was that when my grandmother was born, he refused to teach her, her own language and told her often that he would not teach her the language or the culture because he didn't want her to be given the same treatment that he received. He was also told by his teachers that maori was rubbish, useless and was not needed so it was a waste of time knowing it. All these things are a contributing factor to the problem. In my opinion,education and knowledge are the keys to enlightenment for all people. I just hope it comes sooner rather then latter for my people's sake.
In conclusion I would also like to add that I do believe that people can over come all and be the people that they are supposed to be. Let go of the negative and look to the future and love who you are.

Arohanui,
Sovereign of the Land.

Melany

Kia ora Freestyler...

I support what you are saying...Statistics are high when it comes to Maori and crime thats a fact that can't be pushed aside...What I think needs to be done...IS that the younger Maori generation needs exposure to their culture...alot of families have moved into the city and in turn they have no exposure to Marae which is the foundation of Maori culture...I find and this is my own opinion...When you can not identify with who you are...you have no direction...So in order to eradicate the problem you need to find the source...Learn your Whakapapa (family tree)...I felt so lost as a person when I came to Australia and basically tried to shun my Maori heritage...I never felt settled...made some really f#$@ed up decisions...Then I came into contact with a BEAUTIFUL group of young Maori people...(no religious beliefs involved)...They are all aged 20-30+, all employed, hard-working, articulate, positive , proud, beautiful Maori Rangatahi....just being around them has made me want to be apart of that ...so what I have done is researched my Whakapapa....Knowing where I belong and who I decended from 'WOW' The feeling I experienced at that moment is indescribable...It has filled me with pride and positiveness...I am sad that my people are perceived the way they are...It makes me really, really sad...that people can honestly say that they would like a person to die or run them over, or kill them because of the colour of their skin...!!!!
What has our country come too...PLEASE to all you that are saying all these NASTY, HORRIBLE comments please think twice before you post them...Because as Melany stated...NEGATIVE BREEDS NEGATIVE...
And RICHARD if you walked past me on Queen Street I wouldn't be begging for a smoke or swearing at you....Funny I would probably smile at you or say HI....then you would probably think I was on f#$%en "P" or something because your head has been clouded with other peoples comments and perceptions that you wouldn't be able to comprehend that I was being nice...That Maori can't be nice...lol...grow up...I have Pakeha mates and they are cool...but then I know some Pakeha and they are f#@$EN a-holes...Richard GET A LIFE MATE!!!
And believe me when I say...That these comment listed on this site truly hurt me personally because I would never say or wish any of these things upon anyone because of their colour or race...
If I... being brought up in a house where I was basically abused because of the colour of my skin (which is brown by the way)...have grown up to accept all people (regardless of colour/race) and not be blinded by hatred to ALL that have WHITE skin...then I THINK...NO I KNOW you all can too...!!!

Now in signing off...I truly believe that all that are apart of Aotearoa can live in Peace and Harmony...there are a few bad apples in the barrell...but we will get there...DOI 1985 is all I can say...that is the key...

Ka pu te ruha, Ka hao to rangitahi...

Cast out the old, bring in the new
The old generation has gone and the new generation has come forth...

And I don't want OUR (everyones) kids to grow up in little "America"


Arohanui to all...

And may Peace, Unity and Harmony bestowe upon Aotearoa

Andrea....Maori and Proud

Kia ora again...

Sorry just one more point...

Do we all believe everything that is on telly???
Don't take everything at face value...

Arohanui to all

Andrea....Maori and Proud

hey freestyler

I agree with what you say I think the Maori culture is beautiful but then again some (not all) of the maori's I know have no culture and it is sad. They say NZ has two lanuages but that is bull. If you were asian for example and you learnt to speak Maori you can not survive in NZ without knowing English. I went to Thailand and almost everything is in two lanuages cantonese and English even their cans of coke!! I think that is more important in NZ then having a Maori Hip Hop school I mean what the hell is that!!! Thats not culture. I have heard that Maori is very similar to the Spain's language that is pretty cool. About crime I'm not too sure if learning their culture will help, on Cam Live it said the Rotoruua has more Maori culture than any other part of NZ but 80% old of crime is commited by Maori?? I think it is more important to address that and find out why then to demand early retirement benefits for Maori as they die earlier then other cultures.

kobi

Melany

The europeans have culture and it is an insult for you to say we don't. Next time you open you Christmas presents and eat you feast with your family memberd remember who brought that tradition to NZ. Also the Maori were not first in NZ the Mori Oris were and if you say they were early Maori's than all I can say is how sad it is to eat you own brothers and sisters. Grow up and live in the now instead of hiding behind how may decades and centuries!!!!!!

Kobi

Kia ora Kobi...

Your views are to be respected...But seriously bro....who said we ate The Mori Ori? History??

What is History??...Events that are agreed upon... it doesn't actually mean that it is the factual truth...

And who had the written language??
This I put to you my friend....

Like I keep saying...Don't take everything at face value mate....the settlers government has feed us ALL a bunch of lies for their own benefit...

And as for bringing the Christmas Celebrations...that is just another way the Pakeha have pushed their idealogy and religon onto the Maori people...because we were so called "UNCIVILISED"...PLEASE...

Like the saying goes don't fix something that ain't broke....Well my friends Aotearoa certainly wasn't broken....BUT IT IS NOW F@#$KED...

Gift giving was always in our culture and so was having Whanau (family) gatherings and celebrations over feasts...so that isn't anything new...

And by the way sorry but the date I entered in my 2nd posting it is suppose to be....1835


Arohanui to you all

Andrea....Maori and Proud

Kia Ora Kobi...

I hereby greet your views, with a wide mind, and lesson to be heard.

First off let me address the issue of Xmas.

The origin of what we know as "Christmas Celebrations" actually stems from Rome, Italy and pre-dates the birth of Jesus Christ...so point 1 my friend, not even this tradition belongs to you...!!!

(Points - Kobi 0 / Maori 1)

Point 2, the Mori Ori are native to the Chatham Islands, not to Aotearoa, and there is no evidence that the Mori Ori did live here, which grounds you for "strike 2"

(Points - Kobi 0 / Maori 2)

Point 3, and this is a beauty, regarding the Maori language. You see my dear friend, the only "OFFICIAL" language of NEW ZEALAND is "MAORI".....and that is NEW ZEALAND LAW/STATUTE, which effortlessly means, even English is on recognised as an official language.

(Points Kobi - 0 / Maori 3)

And far be it for me to gloat, Kobi, but the English language that you so proudly claim, actually stems from the French, Greek and Italian Languages....and who knows...thats just the tip of the ice berg.....

(Ponits Kobi - 0 / Maori 4)

And, if I may, I will also touch on the subject of language again, you see, while the white settlers forced their religion, teachings and ways of life upon a people who were already so rich in this area, we were further punished for even speaking our own language....thats what we like to call "Cultural Suppression"....which is why our people today, peak the statistic charts....reason being...our ancestors were refused a way of life, told to stop living as we were and enforced upon them was the fact that we were inferior, uncivilised and uncultured...

You see, this inevitable path of failure that is highlighted by these delicate statistics was sown on the authoritarianism of the infamous white settler.

(Points Kobi 0 / Maori 5)

Which brings me to an redundant conclusion, so please Kobi, I invite to hear my concerns, and when, at what ever time you feel confident enough to confront me on a level worth my time, please do so, with passion, pride and presence.

Til next time....

Identity: Maori
Proud: Hell Yeah

S.

S.

Hey S
you have some interesting views. But I ask if you look at Aotearoa, before the white man came, in the 1800s, according to the museum, it had the device the Maori used for cutting meat and other materials was a sharpened stone!!! Now if you look at what the white man had at that same era in time, they had items like gun powder and steel, to name a few of the great tools of modern intelligence at their disposal. It seems to me that your ancestors were impressed by all these great and useful inventions that they choose to embrace the white culture and todays Maori need to respect what happened and learn from history not try to change it because you are disrespecting your own history and the actions your own blood heritage choose, unless of course you dont believe in accountibility. Lastly as long as the Maori continue to ask for money from any source they will always be percieved as the weaker culture because instead of empowering your own culture you seem to prefer hand-outs, so I ask who is deciding whos future? the ones giving their money to help others or the ones who lap up any bone thrown to them? The way I see if all the Maori united to better themselves then maybe they could be the ones helping out there fellow humans?

Cain

I know where English came from, it originated from the Latin language as I'm sure you will know. So obviously some traditions came from them as well. I never said the English pulled it out of thin air what I was saying as you seemed unable to get my point is that every race and culture has traditions. As a certain some-one seemed unable to comprehend that. Not everyone is simple and narrow minded enough to say that any culture has no traditions christ even families have traditions.

But thank you for the laugh, point this and point that blah blah it makes you come across as very angry (ha ha I got you wound up ha ha) and point scoring is very immature and shows lack of communication skills, not to mention your embrassment of your own race. If you read my original message I pointed out that I like the Maori culture but am concern of the crime funny how you completely ignored that point.

Kobi

Cain,

Let me first address your comment about hands outs.

You see, Helen Clarke approached the International Monetary Fund and asked for a loan of 45 Billion dollars, which was then passed to Dr Greenspan of the World Bank, and declined. Reason being, when asked what she was going to put up as collateral, she said "63 million acres of Land". And guess what, she was shamefully told that that land did not belong to the government....

So guess who it belongs to....? Which brings me to my next question as to what makes you think that government money is white mans money in the first place....?

Now, in your statement you use the word accountability....And, if I may reiterate my view during my first posting.

you see while the white settlers forced their religion, teachings and ways of life upon a people who were already so rich in this area, we were further punished for even speaking our own language....that’s what we like to call "Cultural Suppression".... which is why our people today, peak the statistic charts....reason being...our ancestors were refused a way of life, told to stop living as we were and enforced upon them was the fact that we were inferior, uncivilised and uncultured...

so are you prepared to take "ACCOUNTABLILTY" for that, knowing damn well that the stats in question are an unfair repercussion of this...and if you feel like disagreeing, I invite to pay a visit to your nearest psychologist, psychiatrist or local counsellor, and ask them to explain to you the snowball effect of human degradation and oppression of a lifestyle, while bearing witness as land, a custom and a life force that is yours, is "STRIPPED" from right under your feet......

(I’d love to hear what you have learned about Accountability then)

Which is why I must say that your concern with irrelevant things like tools during the 1800's is a tad bit pathetic....so learn to leave the irrelevant where it belongs and try to adhere to matters of a greater magnitude...!

S.

Kobi,

Once again you fail to meet me head on....which is sad....but was totally expected....

But I will once again reply, out of respect.

first of all, I want to combat you comment about winding me up, you see, I come from a people who have a unique identity of passion, belonging and purpose, which is why I speak from the heart....you see, this is something I do....which was gifted to me by my ancestors, which goes to say, that if you can not speak with passion, speak not at all....

And what makes me worry about your lack of intelligence the most, is that you still ask the question about why Maori peak crime rate statistics, the answer is so simple, i'm ashamed that I have to spell it out....

Rape....................!!!!!

Theft...................!!!!!

Violation...............!!!!!

Abuse...................!!!!!

We learnt it all from your fore fathers....................!!!!

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...!!!!

That’s right..............................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where else do you think we learnt it from.......

So grab a seat............take a breath..........and learn something for god sakes...!!!!

The white settler not only "RAPPED" our women, "STOLE" our land, "VIOLATED" our rights as Human beings and "ABUSED" my people, but you sit there and still have the ordacity to ask why Maori are at the top of the table today.....now, is that mere ignorance or are you completely dense......!!!!!!

So kobi, grab a "CLUE" out of my last posting addressed to Cain and learn about the effects of "ACCOUNTABILITY"....!!!!!

S.

Well amen to that S.......!!

And I have to add that I am also getting tired of the same topics coming from the likes of Kobi,Cain and Richard.
Please do us a favour guys and give us something worth replying to....! Its getting sickening.

And as for having a culture, I do not deny that EUROPEANS have culture, its a beautiful cultute. But , as for you, ( White N.Zders ) aroha to you all but sorry you can not claim another culture if you claim to be from New Zealand. The european cultures do not belong to N.Zders. And if you are claiming the european culture as a european person then kia ora for that but, there is really nothing more you have to add to the discusions that are at hand because, the issues pertain to N.Zders, not the european.
You are either one or the other my friends.
Look just stop trying to force your selves on the worlds indigenous, either go home to where ever your people came from or work with us who are trying to really become the people and the country that is healthy for all man kind living in Aotearoa.

Proud for ever, arohanui,
Sovereign of the land.

Melany

If you don't want european culture that is fine, but please don't pick and choose. Stop using non-Maori cars, words, clothes, computers, etc etc. This is the now. Every culture is everywhere that is what makes this world a better place we get a taste of everything. We are not forcing anything if you are too weak to say no than I think you need to look deep inside yourself. You want to make NZ better how? by being angry and refusing to look at others ideas? Open your eyes child. I'm part Maori but I embrace all cultures to help enlighten myself there is a whole world out there I think you need to travel it will open your eyes. Make you realise that not everything is about you.

Kobi

Kobi,

“if you don’t want the European culture that’s fine, but please don’t pick and choose.....?"

Are you suffering from memory loss or are you ignorant.

Try and grasp this, if you can.....!!!

the white settler imposed their way of life on us, while making damn sure that life, as we knew it back then, was stamped out, forgotten and never practiced.

did we have a "CHOICE".....NO....!!!!

did we "PICK" this path of destruction.....NO....!!!!

so choose you words wisely, and learn to look at the bigger picture, because as far as im concerned your views are very narrow-minded. You see, all you do is moan about today....but you fail, yet again to realise that we are, what we are today, due to the path that was chosen for us.....

WE HAD NO CHOICE.....!!!!

the white settler enforced colonisation, with the intention to eradicate the way we lived....which was forced upon us so much that the only place we have left, to call "OURS" are our marae....

now take a minute to listen to yourself kobi, because I don’t think you understand the impact that this sort of pain can have.....which is why your questions concerning cars and computers baffles me....

you see kobi, even the royal monarch at the time agreed that what was happening to the Maori people was uncalled for, undignified and unjust which is why the treaty was drafted to protect us, but your fore fathers not only robbed us of our rights as the indigenous people of new zealand, but you managed to steal everything from us in the same breath.

And I speak not only for Maori, but also for every other indigenous culture that has been damaged by the foul methods of authoritarianism imposed upon them by white settlers. so I think it is you who needs to take a leaf out of your own book, and hear me when I say "MY EYES ARE WIDE OPEN", are yours........??????

and as for "embracing other cultures" you need to stop being such a huge hypocrite and start listening to yourself.......so before you start embracing other cultures, to enlighten yourself....take a look around you.....and embrace your own culture first....learn about who you are......and where you come from.....don’t pretend to be something that you are not...!!!

I come from a people who's pain spans generations....and there is absolutely no confusion or denial in my heart. however, for someone who wallows in shame of their roots....I pity you...!

so before you judge others, first judge yourself...

and once again I ask you to post something that is worth replying to, because so far, all you have done is avoided everything I’ve raised......which demonstrates the lack of faith, you have in your own beliefs....how sad....!!!!

S.

Hi all,

I have noticed a pattern occuring with all the points made in this forum , and basically we are all loosing what the initial question was regarding Mr Brash and his political views.

Basically i feel that Mr Brash is using this type of negative and positive relay of information in order to make his appointment into parliment official. Obviously using a point that is sore to most of New Zealand.

Regarding the maori and non maori agrument.We could go on forever and ever debating what was done to us and what we receive now. The present is not a fair representation of the underlying factors that caused the slow demise of the maori culture and the ironic colonisation of what we call New Zealand.

If we are to move on as people we as maori do need to make more informed choices regarding our historical rights and the legal ammendments and documents that had been put in place by our tipuna to protect, nurture and empower us.

As for kiwi's, new zealander or whatever term is used to describe people of non maori descent that live in New Zealand, you may also need to be more informed with all documents that were created from the beginning of colonisation in New Zealand to present day New Zealand. In this study you will definately find more reason for why maori think they way they do towards the land , the people and there culture.

Insaying this i do feel that we can be one nation and one people but we must look at the past and rectify hurts that were caused then , in order to face the future clearly and more informed.

Concerned about the future!

Okay
you dont really understand what I mean by accountibility. what I meant was what happened well before your time, when the Maori had great warriors (not people who whine about past dates, I mean every single race has been treated unfairly including the white race who have been invaded as well) who did not dominate the white settlers! The white people ended up controlling, manipulating,raping and bullying the entire Maori culture,so you had your chance THEN to change your own future. Instead we are left with the world we share today, so accept your accountibility that your past elders had their chance to defeat the white settlers but didnt..... THEY helped to shape NZ, by both what they did do and by what they didnt do!! can you at least accept that the past is unchangable?
Oh and the tools were to show you how much the world had evolved around you, while the Maori were unaware, isolated and showing very primitive hand tools!!
Like the caveman had over.. oh... several THOUSAND years ago!!!!
So your elders made a smart decision because without those visitors, todays Maori wouldnt be able to enjoy things like cars, tv, electricity etc or what you could call....civilisation

Cain

Kia ora, lots of good points raised.
Kia ora to the person who made the last 2 entry, very well written.

As for you Kobi, let me enlighten you on my experiences and give an answer to your challenge.
As for travelling the world and opening my eyes to it, I am not only living now in Australia as a community educator but I have studied the Japanese culture and Language IN Japan for 2 years. I have also travelled to all the polynesian island, and to L.A, Utah and Saudi Arabia. And all I see in many of these countries is the suffering of the people at the hands of those who have colonised them.

And as for having maori blood.....MY GOD, MAN.... You are the one who needs to open your eyes and while your doing that take a breath!!.
Educate yourself on the history and the mana of OUR people and be proud. Think about it, who's history would you rather be proud of, I mean honestly?????

You sound like some people I know from Masterton.......

Arohanui.....
Sovereign of the land.

Melany

by the way, when i congratulated the last 2 entries, I was referring to S. and Concenred about the future...!!!!

definately not Cain...!

Melany

Dearest People....

I would firstly like to address Cains comments...

Mate if wrong was done to your family then I definatly think that you would have something to "whine" about...If your family land was CONFISCATED to fund the 2nd world war then I am sure that you would have something to "whine" about...and yes Cain as recent as World War 2...surprise...surprise???

And still to this day Land of Maori families is being "ACQUIRED" by the settlers government to build freeways through....AND THIS I KNOW BECAUSE IT IS HAPPENING TO MY YES MY OWN FAMILY....and you know what the settlers govenment is using to aquire MY LAND???...The Treaty Of Waitangi...which is an illegal document...and you ask Why??? Because the English version of The Treaty was never signed by MY TUPUNA....ONLY THE MAORI VERSION WAS!!!!....and there are discrepencies in the translation...We were to be "watched over"...not bloody well "TAKEN OVER"....So why is it that an illegal document is allowed to be used in the system???

So to all my fellow Maori Rangatahi, Kaumatua...and tamariki...

TAKE A STAND...IN ORDER TO BE HEARD WE NEED TO BELEIVE IN WHAT IS RIGHTFUL OURS...AOTEAROA...WE ARE TO GOVERN OURSELVES!!! THAT IS WHAT OUR TUPUNA WANTED...READ THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE OF NEW ZEALAND...OUR TUPUNA PUT THAT DOCUMENT TOGETHER TO PROTECT OUR LAND AND RESOURCES...TO PROTECT US...

SO IN ORDER TO HONOUR OUR TUPUNA WE NEED TO FIRSTLY HONOUR THAT DOCUMENT!!!

IN ORDER TO HONOUR OUR SELVES WE NEED TO FREE OURSELVES FROM THE settlers governments STRANGLEHOLD...

SO IN SIGNING OFF...I LEAVE YOU WITH

D.O.I 1835...

READ IT!!!
KNOW IT!!!
LIVE IT!!!

I do not apoligize for my outburst...but these are issues that hit home hard and when I get told to basically stop whining mate... it gets my blood boiling because until you are in the situation my whanau and I are....all I can say is....

SHUT YOUR FACE!!!

And Cain as for the smart decisions made by MY TUPUNA....YES they were smart...pakeha forebearers??....SHIFTY...
And I TAUTOKO you S (lol)...
We learnt it all from your (pakeha) fore fathers

and yes I still wish peace, harmony and unity to be bestowed on Aotearoa...
Which CAN be achieved through the D.O.I

Thank you

Andrea....Maori and Proud

Kia Ora Andrea...Kia Ora...!!!

I Support all of that..................!!!!!!!

But as for you Cain, boring very boring...!!!!

Now may I take the chance again to re-introduce you to my people’s trump card......

It’s called "THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE" 1835....

And I suggest that you take a leaf out of Andrea’s book and:

READ IT!!!
KNOW IT!!!
LIVE IT!!!

And as for your other comments, however numbing they were, only seem to highlight the fact that you have no education, because it sounds like you are just farting on paper and transferring it to this discussion board...!!!

I hereby invite you to actually pick up a book and learn about the Maori land wars that took place on the arrival of the settler, and note that not only did my people defeat the European army's and naval forces, with our "PRIMITIVE TOOLS", but the settlers had to gather even more forces from 3 other countries....

and still we defeated them....so as a typical settler, their methods became more gutless as they proceeded to poison my people to death.....and if this is a shock to you, you best be "ENLIGHTENING" yourself and learning first, before you open your empty, irrelevant mind again, and start writing crap.

And to combat your comment about "the past being unchangeable" you are correct in saying that, but you fail to see why we focus on what has happened in the past and refuse to just get over it. Im telling you now, that it is not so simple, and I put this to you......

how long does it take a person to get over a broken arm....a month at the most, but the scars will be with you for ever, and that’s a long time my friend. The physical pain may disappear, but the memory of that will forever live with you, for time and eternity...

So what im trying to get at is, the past may be behind us, but the pain and suffering endured, will be with us forever. Do you understand.......if not then tell me Cain, how long does it take one to forget a memory.....?????

The answer.....!!!!!

Never......!!!!!

As long as we are alive, our spirit will forever remember....!!!!!

You see, my people have endured a lot of injustice in the past, but this has only made us stronger....!!!!

Identity: Maori
Proud: Hell Yeah

S.

S...

TAUTOKO....TAUTOKO.....TAUTOKO

Andrea....Maori and Proud

Dear All,

It is unnerving to see that racism and separatism is rife in our peaceful country of Aotearoa, as is evident in remarks posted here. It is true that we must work together as "One People" to achieve peace and prosperity but not under the management of Dr Don Brash (of all people HELLO!!). If I may can I re-iterate the historical constitutional documents that are mentioned throughout this forum, and provide a tad more info on them:

In 1835, the Declaration of Independence was signed by the Confederation of Maori Cheifs and the, then reigning King William IV, declaring Aotearoa as a Sovereign nation, allowing Maori the right of self governance over their lands, and further more - in declaring our sovereignty, making us equal partners to the Crown.

In 1840 the signing of The Treaty of Waitangi took place, only the Maori version was signed by Maori Chiefs and British Delegates (the "signed" Maori version shall prevail)in the Maori version of the Treaty, Maori ceded Kawanatanga to the Crown - that's Governance - to those uneducated in Te Reo Maori (the Maori Language that is).

A few important points are evident here, 1. the DOI is the lawful, forebaring document to the Treaty of Waitangi and was never made void, therefore it is still an active document, 2. As Maori did not cede sovereignty to the Crown, we are STILL equal partners to the Crown and have been entitled to self governance for the past 165 years, yet the Government tends to ignore this important point.


In addition to the above, (and I am making this comment based on research I have conducted) the NZ Government needs the Treaty of Waitangi to justify its legal right to Govern Aotearoa. (Do some research, the Government have put together a Review Committee, for the purpose of Reviewing the relevant NZ Constitutional Documents, the outcomes confirm the latter)

More importantly it isn't Maori vs Non-Maori, it never has been, it's just how it seems, and remember things aren't always as they seem.

We have the ability to prosper as one people without the political agenda of the current governing body. There are ways of dispelling the uneasy feelings between Maori and Non-Maori, it's just a matter of Educating ourselves in matters of important historical events that apply to all residents of Aotearoa.

No more tit-for-tat, please!! It should actually be Maori and Non-Maori vs NZ Government (or Dr Don Brash)!! If the Government had honored the agreements laid out in the Treaty of Waitangi, the Country would be in a much better financial state than it is at the moment. Hence the question, why does the Government need loans???

It is a fact that the Govt uses Maori land to run the Country, yet they use the land without the permission of its owner - what (in the normal world) are the legal rammifications of this?

The Goverment need Maori to run the Country, why because of the land, ownership of the land(in the eyes of International Law) lies with the Indigenous People of Aotearoa i.e. Maori.

There is a way out, a way where all people will benefit, if you want to know how, stay posted - and for goodness sakes do some research then provide statements or feedback, that are INFORMED statements based on research... as for my colleagues - you know who you are - Kia ora koutou katoa e te whanau, aroha tino nui kia koutout katoa.

A...Yeah!!

A..Yeah!!

Thank you to the above poster for the well researched reply, you make sense, in some ways I think that the government hide alot of information and truths from the public as can you imagine whatturmoil this country would face when 5th generation farms and million dollar townhouses had to be handed back to maori? I honestly don't think it would ever happen in that sense. Also I have some questions I would be interested to hear your reply, since AFTER the treaty and the DOI were signed, the colonists confiscated land in the infamous Maori Land Wars does the fact that it was technically a civil war change anything? I mean because these lands were taken during war time, is this like Kashmir being taken in my India and Pakistan? Was there an official decleration of war? I recognise the fact that there are alot of land issues here like the taranaki land for example that as confiscated in WW2 ,if more New Zealanders were aware of the cheekiness of things like this then I think that would go a long way to creating a bit more compassion and striving to heal this country.
Cheers

freestyler

Hi again,

I think Freestyler has alot of good information there and the key to all cultures release, is through knowledge and understanding of the trials that all peoples had to go through in order to get to this place in time.

Insaying this the biggest and worse thing people could have created is the Television, i only say this due to the information portrayed on the tv is only to suit whom ever is telling the story. So maybe we need to take in what the tv is telling us about "those useless maori" and maybe research it a little further than your lounge room!

I to agree with some of the information that S.., Melany and Andrea have as i can see that they have lived this walk that they talk about. I can also side with Cain and his feelings towards "Some Maori today" and how "some" maori choose to go about regaining there sovereignty and there whenua. In some instances we as maori to get a bit heated and full of heart regarding anything to do with Aotearoa and what it means to us, but the real problem i have noticed is that we need to move forward and do what ever needs to be done in order to educate, empower and make aware the factors that have bought us here today.

So once again we can go around in circles but the fact is that education is the key for a successful future in New Zealand / Aotearoa.
1) Declaration of Independence 1835
2) Te Tiriti O Waitangi 1840
These two documents are the key to the future.

Also just to note, i think its getting abit personal now with the who made what and who is better than the other,(Cain and S...)
But for the sake of it, Cain alot of the tools that you are refering to were not created by the European, most of the tools that you are speaking of were created in Babylonian times, which it shows thru history that they were in a league of there own in regards to weapons, steel, culture, religion and of course the famous word in this forum "Civilisation".
Also your reference to New Zealand now and the items that we would have missed out on if we were not colonised by the European, is a bit far fetched dont you think! Because as it is shown in history time and time again, we would have been colonised by another civilisation like the French , dutch or even the portugese.So i dont think we really need to worry about were we would have been without the european influence on our humble beginings. Maori and most isolated if not smaller countries lived within there means, and so New Zealand being such a small place compared to the likes of Europe we did not have to delve into our mineral supports in orde to effectively develop our land. Causing only the simple tools being used, as we didnt have large and vast deposits of gold , silver and ore minerals that most "civilisations at that period in time were utilising.So basically we and most smaller nations lived with what we needed to live with and in most cases humans evolve over time in order to work more effeciently with there enviroments.
So the use of "cavemen" i think is just a personal attack on s... and his views that obviously have some effect on you.

Anyway what are our first steps to a better country?
that is the question i ask all of you.

Concerned about the future!

please anyone who is interested in the plite that is happening back in N.Z plezzzzzzzzzzzzzz readddddddddddd theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Declaration of Independence and the Ture and you to will be so much more informed .

inspired

Dear Freestyler,

My answer to your question:

The DOI is the forebearing document to the Treaty of Waitangi, the 'Colonists' had not right to confiscate land at any time or place irrespective of any wars that took place, and they know this they just won't acknowledge those actions

I Thank you for your positive remarks, and look forward to hearing your feedback once you have researched the relevant areas.

Kindest Regards
A..Yeah!!

A..Yeah!!

Hi again, I have found quite a good website which had alot of intersting facts about new zealand history www.newzealandwars.com. (I hope Andrea doesn't mind me putting another website address on here if so I apologise) From reading it I see that when the colonists confiscated the land they broke one of the main rules of the treaty which was for maori people to be treated as equal to the white settlers but it's interesting that they made at least 57 seperate acts after this discrimating against the Maori such as the 1862 Natives Land Act and the 1863 New Zealand Settlements Act, this is hardly what I would call "equal treatment".
I would like to thank everyone in this thread and the host of this blog, as you have caused me a regular New Zealander to question the information which has been handed to me from the time I started my Education and what I constantly hear and see from the media. By questioning this I now realise yes there is an issue, and the solution to it is not as simple as Dr.Brash saying "No more waitangi tribunal settlements" this attitude is not going to solve anything in fact it will just aggravate the situation, at least the current labour party are trying to address the problem rather than denying it exists. Anybody who disputes what I have just written I challenge you to like me do some research for yourself and find out the facts rather than just spouting off the usual rubbish that people think are the truth but infact are just rubbishy rumors bandied around by society who would rather forget anything ever happened in the past because this problem is in the "Too hard basket".
Thanks for hearing me out.
Freestyler

Freestyler

Also would like to hear your comments regarding this one. I notice that athe DOIwas only signed by "several northern chiefs" as a temprary measure to stop any other european countries getting in first basically. And although the DOI give Maori soverignty, the Treaty of Waitangi (which "approx 500 chiefs had signed by sep 1940") effectively take sthat sovereignty back away again and kmakes everybody in NZ subject to British Rule. I understand that most Maori cheifs signed the Maori version though which it appears there are some differences in translation. Basically the thrust of this comment is, that because some Maori signed the DOI and nearly ALL Maori signed the overriding Treaty how is it that the DOI still appplies? Interested to hear your reply.
Regards
Freestyler

Freestyler

U dont have to b a rocket scientist to no that it was bloody wrong wat happened so build a bridge and get the hell ova it.Actions speak louder than word's so all u non maori braish urselfs.k=

inspired

Hi freestyler, just reading your comments there are a lot of questions to be asked about those documents, however I dont know if you are aware of the maximums of law. However here is an outline below.

Maximums of Law

1. First in time, best in law
2. Whatever you create, you control
3. The Law of God and the Law of the Land are all one and both favour and preserve the common good of the land.

Because the D.O.I was the first official document signed between King William IV and Maori, King William being the true heir to the throne through his whakapapa or blood line, this identifies the significance of the D.O.I. Whereas the Treaty of Waitangi was done between the Maori and Queen Victoria who is not the rightful heir to the throne through her whakapapa (War of the Windsors).

Suveryn

P.S. First in time, best in law, therefore the Maori version shall prevail over the pakeha version.

The D.O.I. is under Gods Law and the Lawful Law identified as(uppercase and lowercase letters), recognises us as flesh and blood people. That's why we as Suveryn - (A Sovereign person on our papakainga), write in red pen, this represents the blood that flows in our veins.

However the legal system identifies people under the Legal system as ENTITIES, ALL UPPERCASE LETTERS. If you've ever filled out an IRD tax form they ask you to write in black or blue pen and capital letters. The legal system tries to say that you as a flesh and blood person is the same as the ENTITY they created under their legal system, this goes for all nationalities because we can all be under God's Law which is why the D.O.I. is such a significant document for all and not just the Maori.

So my pakeha, chinese, melanese friends and maori whanau we need to create awareness of the D.O.I. and it's significance to our world.

Suveryn

OK, but you haven't really answered my question, it seems the fact is that The treaty of waitangi was signed by almost all Maori cheifs, and it overrides the previous DOI. And as for first in time best in law, if this was always the case you would never be able to make amendments or overide previous laws, the fact is Maori signed the Treaty, and bound themselves to it, overriding the DOI. And queen Victoria was next in line for the throne, so effectively the heir, "several northern chiefs" did sign the DOI with King William as REPRESENTATIVE of the British monarchy, and NEARLY ALL Maori chiefs signed the Treaty of Waitangi with Queen Victoria as REPRESENTATIVE of the British monarchy. So I fail to see where you are trying to get at with that side of your argument.

Also I think you have been misinformed they are the MAXIMS of law, They are principles and authorities, and part of the general customs or common law of the land; and are of the same strength as acts of parliament, when the judges have determined what is a maxim; which belongs to the judges and not the jury. The application of the maxim to the case before the court, is generally the only difficulty. The true method of making the application is to ascertain how the maxim arose, and to consider whether the case to which it is applied is of the same character, or whether it is an exception to an apparently general rule.

Its like me saying I agree to let you live in my house, and You and I sign an agreement, then five years later we discuss it and agree that you should move out of my house, and we both sign, you can't come back and say the previous arangement still holds because you have just signed and consented to the new arrangement. Thats pretty logical isn't it?

Freestyler

Very well put freestyler, nice to see some-one is doing research instead of spewing out rubbish.

Also Suveryn with the blue & black pen it is used because it holds up over time and is very clear to read, unlike red ink which fades dramaticlly and people with bad eye sight find it hard to read.

I know this because I work in a law office. But if you can prove to me that what you say is true (as I have no idea which orafice you pulled that from) I would appreciate if you can post the webpage.

cheers

Kobi

Are you for real Kobi!!!!!
After all the really good feedback from all the people posted in here so far, ( besides yourself and Cain )you go and post a comment as stupid as that......
It obviously shows the level of your intelligents.
Get a life, open your ears and get a bit of truth in to your dark soul.

Alicia

You work in a law office...lollollollol
They must have you there for a laugh.
Because you obviously dont have the brain for the job.
Because if you did you would have already known about all this..!!

Maori blood......what a laugh....shame on your parents...lol

Alicia

she said she worked in a law office that could mean alot of things she didn't say she was a practising lawyer or anything else same on your parents lolololo wat a laugh

inspired

Alicia why don't you respond to my carefully thought out comments instead of just attacking someone else, also who signs in red pen these days? This tit for tat "you are so dumb" style of your response is getting abit tired....yawn. I don't know how many legal documents you have signed recently but I guarantee you not one of them was signed in red pen, for the reason Kobi stated above. You can dismiss it all you want, but you're the one left looking like an argumentative person. You're last comments were weak, unthought out and obviously (in your own words) "shows the level of your intelligents" Nb. Your spelling not mine.

Freestyler

To inspired why don't you have a read of my last few comments and respond.

Freestyler

Yes freestyler you are dead right to warn Alicia about her attack on Kobi but yet you fail to warn Kobi also about his/her pathetic comments written through out this discussion board. It’s good that you do have the ability to give reasonable comments to the issues brought to the table but, I think everyone is getting sick of comments made by Kobi, Alicia, Cain and all those who have not offered any encouragement to the issues at hand. Kia ora.

I will try and answer some of the questions that have been asked.....

First, the issue with the fact that it was the northern chief's that wrote the DOI 1835. With issues such as the protection of our land and tikanga, our people were united in these issues. Because of this, on behalf of the Maori people the northern chiefs had the document recognised and signed by the monarch of England.

Second, the issue with the treaty taking away the sovereignty of the Maori. This is not true at all, in fact it emphasises the fact that our sovereignty has been protected by the monarch. The sovereignty of my people was still in tact even after the fact. No way have my people ever given away or handed over our sovereignty to anyone. The fact that 2 documents were written and signed by representatives of the monarch and Maori are a testimony to how Aotearoa was to function.

Just a bit more information for everyone to discuss, in relation to the preamble of the treaty of Waitangi. The agreement made by Maori and Queen Victoria was that all land sales to settlers before 1840 was nul-in-void and that all land had to be sold first to the Queens agent (Hobson) and from there the settlers could purchase land from the Queen.
According to New Zealand’s representative to the Queens council Mr Joseph Mapiria, (who is also the head of the Maori Law Society)
The Queen holds no receipt for any land sales made after 1840, which makes the land of New Zealand unextinguished title. This is why, as we speak, the council of the United Nations still recognises New Zealand as a sovereign nation. As for land that was confiscated by the settler’s government, well, these were just evil acts by people that will be held accountable before God.
The point is, every piece of Aotearoa is unextinguished title which will be recognised by all very, very soon.

Maori Mana, Maori Whenua mo ake tonu.

Arohanui,
Sovereign of the Land

Melany

Hey Alicia I'm still awaiting my proof as asked but it seems all you are capable of doing is making childish put downs, gee I am so impressed but your quick wit ha ha. Shame on my parents LOL that sure makes you sound very intelligent : )


Melany I suggest you do some research first before you talk as your lack of knowledge shows for your quote "Second, the issue with the treaty taking away the sovereignty of the Maori. This is not true at all, in fact it emphasises the fact that our sovereignty has been protected by the monarch"

look up http://www.treatyofwaitangi.govt.nz/treaty/?PHPSESSID=f1f64a0f05cdbbbeeeb90979168a1aaf under "Article the First" it states:

In the English text of the Treaty, Maori leaders gave the Queen "all the rights and powers of sovereignty" over their land.

In the Maori text of the Treaty, Maori leaders gave the Queen "te kawanatanga katoa" – the complete government over their land.

I would like your thoughts : )

Kobi

Oh Kobi my little narrow minded friend.
The English text of the treaty as we all know is incorrect so we won’t even bother with that. In the Maori version of the treaty it does say "kawanatanga katoa" which does mean "complete government". Yes you are correct BUT!!! Government does not mean sovereignty.
Just like the government of England governs over the people of England, Queen Elizabeth still sits as the nation’s sovereign.
Same, same little person.

And as for challenging my research abilities I have submitted many issues that have been very well researched by me and many others, where you on the other hand have not yet submitted anything worth thinking about. So I encourage you before you reply to find some new information worth reading about because you are boring me YET AGAIN!!!!!!

Arohanui,
Sovereign of the land.

Melany

Kia ora People,

I would just like to comment on a few things...
KOBI... mate what is your problem?
WHY are you still trying to argue your point????

When all your arguments are straight out of text books, websites and teachings from school...

We live it my friend!!! Is that not enough for you to accept?????

Anyone can SPOUT on blah blah blah...
IT MAKES YOU NOTHING MORE THAN A WELL TRAINED PARROT...

AS I POSTED PREVIOUSLY...HISTORY IS NOTHING MORE THAN EVENTS AGREED UPON...

YES AGREED UPON AND AS I SAID BEFORE...PAKEHA HAD THE WRITTEN LANGUAGE...SO WHAT WAS WRITTEN ISN’T NECESSARILY THE TRUTH...
WHICH YOU AND YOUR IGNORANT BUDDIES ON THIS WEBSITE HAVE FAILED TO ADDRESS...

And please KOBI do not try to challenge us on the subject...which you obviously have NO knowledge on...

Please do not try to battle us with your minute knowledge on the TIRITI O WAITANGI...

....WE LIVE IT MATE....

And as for being part MAORI mate you have no understanding of what it is to be MAORI...so don’t bring us all down by stating that you have MAORI blood...
Until you truly know what it is to be MAORI...keep calling yourself and living in your PAKEHA world...I pity you...

KIA MAU KI TO MAORITANGA…..

By the way it is people like you that hold us all back….rolling over and accepting what the pakeha put before you….with out question...
THAT MAKES YOU WEAK...WEAK IN NOT ONLY YOUR MIND BUT YOUR SPIRIT ASWELL...

MY ANCESTORS COULD SEE WHAT THE PAKEHA WERE TO DO TO OUR LAND AND PEOPLE...EXPLOITATION

THAT’S IS WHY THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE 1835 WAS WRITTEN AND SIGNED BY THE KING OF ENGLAND...TO PROTECT MAORI AND THE LAND...
FUNNY HOW YOU KEEP HARPING ON ABOUT THE TREATY...

THE TREATY HOLDS NO MANA...

MY ANCESTORS WHICH I AM SURE I SHARE WITH YOU (if you have maori blood)….
ARE TO BE HONOURED...AND IN HONOURING THEM WE ARE TO HONOUR THAT DOCUMENT...IN ORDER TO HONOUR YOURSELF...FIRSTLY WE HONOUR THAT DOCUMENT????

So as Melanie has stated time and time again...before you post something make sure it is WORTH posting...because as childish as you think ALICIA is being...she speaks from her heart and I have to agree with her on her point of you sounding like a KNOB...

Have a great day and smile :)
Look forward to reading any comments
KIA ORA

Andrea....Maori and Proud

DOI 1835

Read it.......

Know it.......

LIVE IT!!!!!

WATCH OUT FOR THIS SLOGAN.....

Andrea....Maori and Proud

Thank you freestyler for correcting me re the maxims of law -maximums of law as was put in my previous posting, you have taught me something and I'm not afraid to admit. And to Kobi, with reference to writing in black pen. The reason that is so is because the Immigrants Parliament is (Black/Legal Law) therefore always written in black.

Thats besides the point, I was trying to draw a picture for you all on the difference between Gods Law the Lawful Law and the Legal system which takes away our rights as sovereign people. Which is what the New Zealand Company of Parliament residing in Wellington is doing. An uncontitutional Government from the actions of Geoffrey Palmer PM in 1986 who repealed the New Zealand Contitution Act 1852 which removed the ability/power to govern the Settlers and Immigrants Parliament (Black/Legal Law)

Parliament/Settlers to New Zealand derived their authority from the New Zealand constitution Act 1852 which has no relationship to the Treaty of Waitangi 1840 nor the Declaration of Independence 1835.

Within the Treaty of Waitangi there are Statutes of Westminster Act adopted by the settlers government on 11 November 1947.s8 of that enactment states that nothing in that act gives any authority to the settlers government to alter or repeal the constitution of the Commonwealth of Australia and the Dominion of New Zealand.

However the act provided the settlers Parliament to make full laws for themselves without the assistance from the Parliament of Westminster.

However, in 1986 the settlers parliament (Government) of New Zealand repealed the New Zealand Constitution Act 1852 which in fact removed the ability/power to govern themselves.

In 1988 the Imperial Laws Applications act was enacted and was reverted back to the Common Law Of England. Hence the Declaration of Independence 1840 and it's significance today.

Now Enacted is the protection statute in New Zealand called Te Ture Whenua Maori / Maori Land Act 1993/94.
Section 5 "This Act shall bind the crown".

God Save Her Majesty the Queen of England and New Zealand

Suveryn

Suveryn

Dear All

It is clear that misunderstandings exist with pro-Government members of this forum. Minsunderstandings are brought about by the lack of research conducted (or by the inability to interpret the written word), including the lack of respect for ones historical lineage (Maori lineage that is).

Please see the following extract:

The Treaty of Waitangi must be seen in the context of events that happened over a number of years before 1840. One of the major events was the selection of a National Flag in 1834, and following this the Declaration of Independence which was signed on October 28, 1835, at Waitangi. The events leading up to this Declaration of Independence included:

* the concerns of both the Church and Missionary Society, Busby and Maori about the lawlessness and behaviour of many Europeans particularly in the Bay of Islands. The letter sent to King William IV from the Maori chiefs is worth reading on this subject
* the growing interest of other nations apart from Britain, e.g. France and United States, in New Zealand, and amongst these Baron Charles de Thierry, who claimed he had bought 40,000 acres of land and attempted to establish himself as the Sovereign Chief of New Zealand
* the discussions , trips abroad , debates and plans within Maori society since around 1816 to establish a form of Maori government within Aotearoa, one which would unite the tribes in some form of common system
* the successful participation by Maori in trading, shipping and other "European" areas of life.

So you see, from the above, Maori were brought together, as United Tribes of Aotearoa, to prevent the lawlessness by Europeans, to prevent the taking over of land by Europeans and to ensure that Trading agreements previously established were maintained through the United Tribes.

The Treaty of Waitangi is an agreement made between Maori and the Crown that has thus far been dishonored. Proof of dishonest activities can be found in the fact that the Crown has already made two formal apologies (with appropriate compensation) to both Ngai Tahu and Tainui.

Ngai Tahu fought since 1848 to have the breaches of the principles laid out in the Treaty of Waitangi redressed and compensated. They were successful in receiving a formal apology from the Crown. Comments in the apology included:

,"the Crown acknowledges that it acted unconscionably and in repeated breach of the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi..."

"The Crown acknowledges that, in breach of Article Two of the Treaty, it failed to preserve and protect Ngai Tahu use and ownership of such of their land and valued possessions as they wished to retain."

Remember though that the Crown's representative is the Governor General.
Extract:
The Governer General has constitutional role to maintain the legitimacy and continuity of government (for example, by receiving the writ that dissolves Parliament before a general election is held; by formally requesting the leader of the political party which gains the support of a majority in Parliament to form a government; and by assenting to the enactment of legislation).

Legitimacy is the foundation of civil peace and the order that is maintained by the rule of law.

I shall leave it at that for now, feedback - more than welcome.

Kia ora.

A..Yeah!!

A..Yeah!!

I have been here for one year from Scotland, working and travelling. You guys have got more issues than the middle east, its such a beautifull country. Seems to me if you all go on blaming each other and becoming filled with racism it will only get worse.

We have a lot of problesm with poverty and crime, drug dealers, junkies street violence, only thing is, everyone is white. Colour has nothing to do with it. Seems like a lot of poor kids go around stealing and intimidating others at school and on the streets. I have even been threatened here by an Islander and I am only visiting and bringing money in to this place!

The past is in the past ..let it go.............stop being so angry and looking at each other for the problem, start looking in the mirror and deal with your own attitude.

Neutral.

My goodness........there are a lot of angry people who all want to be right. Talk about having a 'chip' on your shoulder.

Forgiveness is the hardest thing for a human being to do, as proven by most people here.

Keep listing your facts about treaties and facts.

These huge posts listing historical detail and agreements mean nothing. It just more finger pointing and people looking to 'win' and be 'right' in this never ending argument.

Look.........the nazis in Germany murdered and killed millions of people across Europe. Should we still blame thier children and their children.

This is called a cycle of hate.

The fact is that throughout the history of the world lands get conquered, and war goes hand in hand with religion and life.

Stop being angry at the 'white' man, and stop calling people 'niggers'.....its a filthy word.

Don't you people get it, carrying around anger and blame from the past will only produce more hurt and more problems for everyone.

Be at peace.....bury the hatefull attitude........stop hating and blaming. Treaties and dis-agreements or 'agreements' are not going to solve the hate in New Zealand society.

Wake up!

Enlightened.

It so simple all........


Go to school, pass your exams, get a career. Dont steal or use violence. Teach your kids self respect and kindness. Be strong and determined and stand up for what is right and fair. Colour and race does not matter.

I know people who came from nothing but still had self respect and made their kids work hard. They became doctors and teachers.

Poverty is not an excuse to be hatefull and choose violence and lazyness.

Stop looking for excuses and smarten up, black or white.

B-Real.

Hi All,

i think the last two entries posted are being very narrow minded with the reasons for alot of the information posted in this forum regarding the treaty , doi and any other legal document produced. in order for the above people to convey there thoughts about the New Zealand we are living in and why New Zealand is the way that it is today these documents do need to be spoken on.

I say this as the people that have been posting the constitutional documents are not trying to convey there hate for another race nor are they trying to belittle, scald or point blame at any one nation with the documents that they are speaking on. All they are trying to do is make people that may not be fully aware of some of the underlying factors that have caused,the demise of a nations pride ( maori and non maori) and heritage.

I do agree with the points made that hate breeds hate,violence will get you know were, instil in your children correct morals and understanding towards all people and that with these acts it may create the catalyst for a sustainable solution to help the New Zealand we live in and love.

Insaying this using the words "Wake up" is exactly what we as a nation need to do, and to do this we need to know were we have come to move forward. This is why the constitutional documents pointed out in this forum are the key. As you can see it is not as simple as saying "bury the hateful attitude" as obviously alot of people here have experienced seperatism,rascism,stereo typing and family trauma to name a few that have caused the comments above to be voiced.

So how are we going to fix a nation that feels strongly about the past hurts? how can we identify as one nation and look to a brighter future?

By the way i dont think the people in the forum are saying , blame those who have done this hurt, but just look at what has happened for what it is!!!!!!

Concerned about the future!

http://www.celticnz.co.nz/RaglanRamble.htm
I though the debate could use a little more information...

btw I grew up in NZ, at that time most of us in NZ society knew of Mori Ori history. It was taught to us by Maori elders.

National identity is made of individual identity, let NZers communicate and share their ethics and moral values regardless of ancestral geometrical roots.

one earth

That link has some very interesting evidence.................


How far back do you want to go........? If the evidence found points to pre Moari western or non-moari settlers, how far back do you want to go?

"Is our land..no its our land ...no its ours we saw it first......."........zzzzzzzzz..........yawn........

Sort it out......get over the past........look to the future.

Never ending argument.......

Check this out ya'll.............

http://www.kilts.co.nz/mitancient.htm

lets go back.....way back.......

Oh yeah and this..............seems like before the Maoris........there were other folk here...........

this is interesting.....http://www.kilts.co.nz/mhorruairidh.htm...........who's land is it again?

lets go back.....way back.......

okay ,

i just have a query?
What relevance does your claim have regarding the topic at hand.(lets go back....way back...)
Don Brash for one people

I do not think that you are wrong regarding the other settlers / people that may have imbanked on New Zealand but you also have to remember we can go as far back as when the land broke off Africa or was it South America, more than likely were ever the land that we now call New Zealand started from it would have had an inhabitants and they more than likely died and were fossiled or buried which ever is appropriate.

I say this as the websites that you posted are informative but have no substance with respect to factual information as alot of it is maori bashing!!!
we want facts not someone's interpretation of why a nation is the way they are!!

Also maori do not think they own the land or well they are not suppose to as they are the kaitiaki of the land or Carers for the land. That is tikanga which is the foundation for all maori culture and ethics.

Concerned about the future!

Dear Let's go back....way back.....

I refer to the website http://www.celticnz.co.nz/RaglanRamble.htm

Indeed the findings are very interesting, however I can't see how archeology has any bearing on the facts mentioned throughout this forum. Yeah sure enough there is evidence of cannibalism, in terms of Maori history, but please, these findings are not confined to Maori only. If archeologists wish to conduct their research, they are obligated to abide by the law of the land, regardless of which country they are in, they must still abide by the law of the land. And yes it is true, throughout the world their have been archeological findings of dinosour fossils, so what does that mean? That dinosours have the right to claim sovereignty over all of the world. Do you think the humans would give them that right?

The fact still remains, mate - that an agreement was formed between the British settlers and the NZ Maori, the agreement was not honored by the British settlers.

Now, are you telling me that if you were to sell your house - a form of contractual agreement - and the party you signed your house over to did not come up with the cash - and that due to some Government Policy, that person was allowed to keep your house regardless of whether or not you were paid in full, that - you would not fight for the agreement to be honored. I don't think so!!

Any form of contractual agreement is legally binding regardless of who has ownership or guardianship of the land, it is still a binding agreement.

That is law.. Kia ora...
A..Yeah

A..Yeah!!

I wonder what the ethnicity of the 14 year old boy who threw the 8kg lump of concrete off a motorway overbridge is? Lets wait and see shall we!

the one

Well to me i think that the maori's in this country are very lucky.. We were not cast aside on account of our skin colour and/or race... We are surrounded by countries that have pushed "black people" aside like they are nothing ( Australia did, and still do to the abo's... White Africa did, and still do to the black africans and i beileve that America is doing it too wiff the negro's ).. Us Maori's should be greatful that we got a different race ( Pakeha ) that hasn't done the same to us.. But in saying that, most maori's still feel like we are outcasts because we aren't "up there" finacially. In my opinion, Maori's are more hard working and independant than the white man (no offence). People tend to agree that the white man are more suitable for the "high maintenence" stuff, which aint right at all. Which is why most of the Maori race is ... low-on-income. Those of you that think it's the Maori people that don't have the "mental capacity" to achieve all that the pakeha have achieved should give us a chance to prove ourselves.

Hamiora Ngatikao age 14

Hi All,

I have just one question and it is directed at the person calling themselves, The One.

Can you please enlighten me to the relevance a persons ethnicity has when in regards to such a horrific crime.

I am sure as you may also be that no matter if the person was maori , polynesian, pakeha or the pink and purple man down the street he committeD a crime and it should be dealt with accordingly.

I hope you were not implying that if the person was of maori decent that it proves anything.
DO NOT PAINT US WITH THE SAME BRUSH!!!

Concerned about the future!

Tautoko...Concerned about the future!

Andrea....Maori and Proud

I personally feel that it is unfair that moari people get more priveleges than the rest of us.We are well deserving of scholarships,and all the other things they feel they are entitled to.Yes,the schoarships are funded by Moari organisations,but who funds the rest of us?If there were Pakeha funds available,then would that not be a racist thing to do?Who is to say that any other person is better off than the moari person?Newzealand is a wealthy country,and i think that there should not even be any poverty.I just think that after all these centuries,fighting over the treaty,its just wrong man.We are not responsible for the signing of the treaty,it is the past.No one racial group OWNS the sea,or land that was cheated from them allt hose years ago?Why should we pay the price,and compenstate for the faults of our ancestors?We all have the right to be here.There should be no racial favouritism.Get over it,and move forward.We are not in 1940!!!!

natasha

I am from South Africa,and for those of you who didnt know,we had apartheid,which was the cruellest thing ay one could ever have thought of,racial segregation.Has anyone evr thought that we do not choose our colour or race?And therefore we should not be treated according to our race.We are all equal.And then I come to Newzealnd,and there is also apartheid going on here,except this time,its the moari people who think that they have all the rights over evryone else here!!!We are all one.Get up off your asses and get a job,stop blaming a piece of paper,the treaty,for circumstances,race should never give anybody authority,or special treatment!!!!

Anon

We all need to think outside the square. Can you not see what Dr. Don Brash, Helen Clarke and the NZ Government have been doing for many years. They have successfully turned Maori and Non-Maori against one another to cover up and deter us from the real matter at hand – that they are acting unlawfully and illegally. Some of the Government funded grants for Maori is a way of them saying sorry for all the injustices done to our people.

God’s Law the Divine Law, Lawful Law, the Law of the Land is superior to all other Laws, i.e. Westminster Law, Legal Law, Cannon Law.
Under law are the Sovereign people, Maori and Non-Maori, Natives and Non-Natives. For those of you who have been misinformed. Maori do not own the land we call Aotearoa. God owns and created it, however because Maori are Tangatawhenua we are Kaitiaki (Caretakers) of the land and we haven’t been doing a very good job of protecting our natural minerals and resources etc. The next time you look at a deed for your land it should say “Transfer of Title”, NOT “Transfer of Ownership”.

FACT: The Declaration of Independence 1835 is an International document and accepted through the United Nations and endorsed through the United Tribes of Aotearoa flag gifted to Maori by King William IV in 1835. The United Nations wishes to take the Australian and New Zealand Governments to court for all the injustices imposed on the indigenous cultures throughout the world. However no other indigenous culture has a Declaration anywhere else in the world other than Maori. And it is Maori that are able to do it through this document.
In the D.O.I. we as Maori are bound to look after Tauiwi (all other cultures) in accordance with Tikanga Laws. This includes all Non-Maori, Indians, and Asian etc who reside in Aotearoa.

As Maori we practice Tikanga (Maori morals and ethics) and under the D.O.I. we are able to govern ourselves in our own districts. Hence Suveryn on our papakainga, te pito o te Whenua (the umbilical cord that ties us to the land) and through whakapapa (geneology). Divine Law - Gods Law and the Law of the Land reigns supreme.

We are able to make our own laws as a people during our Maori Paremata year 28 October to 7 February. Maori may whangai (adopt) other nationalities under the D.O.I. and work as one people. In the D.O.I. no one may govern over us unless they are appointed by us Sovereign people. We have a God given birth right and a duty to our Country, our children and our children’s children to make a stand for the future or it will be lost forever.

This is why Maori have been protesting for many years and we have been educated by the system to think the Legal T.O.W. is the true document. Some Maori don't realise that there are documents and Protectorate Laws in place to back up their protesting.
Maori are equitable partners to the Crown under the D.O.I. Therefore the Settler/Parliament NZ Company of Parliament (Government) who are British subjects to Her Majesty the Queen of England have no jurisdiction over us, e.g. we go into contract with them when we use salutations, i.e. Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss, before our name or by birth certificates – Legal documents. However under Gods Law we are all God's children and should be equal and develop a Lawful Constitution for all people which has not been done yet. And the Clarke Government won't do it cause they will expose the TRUTH!!

From the famous words of my dear friend Andrea.

READ IT
KNOW IT
LIVE IT

Make poverty history. The reason some Maori are so pohara (poor) is because we have had to go to the cities to make a living, away from the Rural Districts – away from our Marae – our heartbeat. The struggle to make a living in the current society gives some reason to why Maori have resorted to crime. The closing down of Affco freezing works throughout the country is another classic example that may have contributed to Maori having the highest ranking in Crime Statistics. This is another excuse for the Government to pinpoint others and their statistics.
A prime example of the injustices of the people is in South Africa. I had seen on Live 8 where imported goods such as rice had been imported by the local Government which impoverished the people of that Country. If you ever get the chance, watch the movie Gandhi (Mahatma Gandhi) and maybe this will help you understand the injustices that we are trying to point out. OPEN YOUR EYES!
The Foreshore and Seabed controversy was not for the fishing beds alone, it was to attain the right for the Government and the "NZ Mafia" the most corrupt men in the world, e.g. Rockafella's, Fletcher and Brierleys, to have a monopoly over the drilling of the oil reserves that we have in New Zealand.
Then they tax us highly to pay for their exploration costs and yet we are still in poverty. FACT: New Zealand has been stated as a Third World Country with the IMF (International Monetary Fund) as a way for the Government to claim monies on behalf of Maori and yet only pay us a pitance. The Govenment has claimed the national debt of NZ to be 25% sovereign debt, which is illegal!

Te Kotahitanga, we must unite as one people, YES, but make an informed decision on which path to take, because clearly there is an alternative – D.O.I. Why vote for a Government that is acting illegally and unlawfully. Why vote at all? And give up our Sovereignty? Hell No! To give up our rights so others may tell us what to do, tax us, impoverish us? I say NO to voting! Waitangi Day will be a trying time for Dr. Don Brash – Andreas, that’s if he gets voted in, because I’ll be there with my Maori and Non-Maori Whanau supporting the D.O.I. as a Sovereign “Natural” flesh in blood person not an “ENTITY” under an Unlawful Government.

Suveryn

OH WOW!!! Look!!! All the rednecks of America have migrated to N.Z!!! (dumb as ever not to mention) Or has racisim has become a trend to anyone white and jelous that Maoris are getting all the attention? I must admit that N.Z is known for it's culture and religon and without it, it would suffer. Racisim is the lowest a human can go.

eg: I HATE FAT MAORI NIGGERS THAT STEAL!
they all steal your shoes and try o fight you. they're all poor and stupid. Don Brash is doing a good job by putting the nigger in his place.
greg


'Greg' Is most likely some low-self esteem, insecure 'WHITE GUY' who got beaten up by some obease SAMOAN. (That's the ignorant polish) Know your enemy Greg.


P.S We arn't in the 1900's anymore..

jesus

Should i remind people that when the treaty was signed there were only one thousand setlers and hundreds and thousands of Maori. And now that Maori are significantly outnumbered, all of a sudden Pakeha want to chuck the Treaty out the door. In fact, by international legislation, the true founding document of New Zealand should be the declaration of independence because it was signed first, however due to compromising on the part of Maori, the Treaty has taken presidence. If Don Brash follows through with his bull shit, Maori will not be represented at all. Te Puni Kokiri, Te Taura Whiri, Te Mangai Paho, these organisations are significant to Maori revitalisation today, without them we will once again be stripped and raped of our cultural identity.

Rangi Kotuku

I can't believe the racism that has been posted on this blog. My bet is it's from teenagers who have been picked on from brown skinned kids at school. You know idiots, white people, actually people from every race commit crimes, it's not just Maori. If you were to study a bit of history you would understand why Maori are in the situation they are in today. And more privilages? The way you people think Maori people are getting free everything left right and centre. Im still as poor as ever. And with the Foreshore and Seabed Act Don Brash and co made out Maori were gonna stop "kiwis" from enjoying a day down at the beach which was complete lies. The beaches you are not allowed to go to are the privatly owned by the rich which there a quite a few. Bet some of you idiots didn't know that. And now that the Foreshore and Seabed Act has been passed the crown has a contract with China to come and take billions of tonnes of sand a year from our shores for the iron ore content which is only about 10%. You see governments only pass laws so they can gain economically not to protect the mainstream kiwi from the "lazy money hungry Maori". And they also pass laws to stop Maori from prospering economically because then they would be a potential "threat". This Foreshore and Seabed Act is the latest in a long line of suppression against Maori. So next time you complain about Maori being poor, (by the way not all Maori are theves and crims) realize why we are in this mess in the first place.

Norflanda

Kia ora Norflanda....

Points made are awesome....I wrote a letter to one of the main News papers In Aotearoa the other day actually a couple of days before the election....In regards to Don Brash...if it gets published remains to be seen...Because as all of my comments made in this blog...is was very pro-Maori....so...mmm lets just see....It was basically a copy of one of my postings here on this website with a few extra things added...have a read....

Kia ora people....

I having been reading through some of the ideas and comments that Don Brash has put forward ....mmmm....kind of sad don't you all reckon?
I am part Maori/Pakeha and as a child growing up in New Zealand I was always told of how the Maori were useless and hopeless….I now live in Australia and it has taken me to move here to recognize that I should be proud of who I am and what I represent being a Maori....and yes there are some negativities expressed in regards to the Maori people but hey that’s with everyone...MANKIND... And why is it that the Maori people are to blame for where the government has failed…..Don Brash you want one people no division …..mate you are heading for a divided country RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE…..what you are doing to our country is suppressing the Maori people and if you had any cultural background and traditions of your own you would realize that what you are doing is wrong….But Kei te pai …you will see the uprise of the Maori people….

Why is it that the Maori people are hounded about being on the dole and government benefits….when in fact the Settlers Government want it as such because they can then apply to the World Bank for grants because the native/sovereign people are poor and living in third world standards….So before slinging off about the Maori people do some homework and ask why….WHAT I am so sick of… is hearing people moan about this and that in regards to the Maori people….and what they doing is just repeating what is said on TV or what the media chooses the people of New Zealand to see….so stop being so ignorant PEOPLE OF NEW ZEALAND ….AND WAKE UP….

To all you that deny your Maori Heritage...learn it and understand it....then you will know that you are truly blessed to have Maori blood run thru your veins...
Do not DENY yourself of who you are and what you represent...PRIDE AND DIGNITY was stripped from our people...our country was functioning better before the Pakeha came to Aotearoa...we had our own government, trade , banking system...no one was better off than another....everything that was done was for the good of the tribe...everyone had food, shelter clothing...and then the Pakeha see this glorious land from a distance and decide they want a piece of it.....

I would like all people to read the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE OF NEW ZEALAND 1835…..THIS was in fact the fore-bearing founding Document of Aotearoa…surprised???…. so was I…..one word ….“suppression”

Now the reason the Declaration Of Independence Of New Zealand was set in place and signed was because the Maori people were concerned about the welfare of the land and its resources...which were being exploited by the Pakeha...And our Tupuna wanted to keep our land and resources safe for our future generation (mmmm Don Brash springs to mind….gee our Tupuna had accurate foresight…)...of not only Maori but ALL that lived in Aotearoa...So all you that are haters...

I challenge you to READ the D.O.I and really take in what it says....Maori, Pakeha, Islander, Asian whatever it is there for us ALL...And with the Declaration Of Independence comes the unravelling of all the lies we have been taught in History…Which then makes me also wonder WHY was this not taught at school????? We were taught our Tupuna were stupid and dumb....which they so weren't...If anything they were the total opposite…Maybe the Settlers Government (which is also known as the New Zealand Government)…should take a leaf out of their book.

Don Brash maybe you should talk to the Maori people and ask them how they felt when their Land was taken from them and their houses Bulldozed whilst they were still living in them…. Don Brash maybe you should ask you mother, father grandparents or great-grandparents how they would feel if their land was taken away from them…something they may have had in place to hand down to make the road of life a little easier for you???
Don Brash maybe you should find YOUR OWN identity and stop feeling INFERIOR to the Maori people and stopping trying to STRIP us of ours

When a people are exploited and suppressed of course it is going to effect the coming generations...It is up to us as Maori to rectify the issues at hand not some pakeha that knows nothing of the way we are as a people....AND WE WILL...
We are BEAUTIFUL people and culture as all other Indigenous Cultures...We are Kaitiaki O Aotearoa that means we are protectors Of Aotearoa including the people, resources etc... that are in it....As people (everyone) we have the right to know the truth...don't settle for what we are taught in school..., have a true look at HISTORY and question it don't take anything at face value...The settlers government has driven the wedge between the pakeha and Maori...why??? Because they want to totally take over and wipe the Maori out…..Tell me what would Aotearoa honestly be like with nothing Maori????….Tell me that….What can Don Brash possibly bring to Aotearoa to distinguish it from all other countries??? When New Zealand is thought upon it is MAORI that comes to mind…..not some little pakeha guy in his office at Parliament….

May Peace, Unity and Harmony bestow on Aotearoa
Andrea….Tangata Whenua……Maori and Proud

Andrea....Maori and Proud

hahaha, gud 1

pukeko

Pfffft Maoris!

A race that should be exported to another island. Rather than messing up our beautiful country! As everyone is saying all they do is. Act Tough, Think they Rule, Pick Fights, Beat People, Cause Trouble, Steal our Tax, Always want Free stuff. Lame as..

Facts:
The crime rate is way way higher in maoris than whites!
Maoris are 75% more likely to reoffend than whites!
Underage drinking is more of a problem in maoris!
Drugs is more of a problem and is more widely used in maoris than anyother race in NZ!
The Doul/benefit is made up of 76% of maoris! (Get a job u lazy N!ggers)

What does that all tell you??? You guys can all die, no one likes you, no one wants you here so get lost! You are wreaking our country.. Look at the facts!! And i will continue to beat the s*it out of countless scores of you 'tough' guys when i see you trying to touch white girls. For example. Last weekend at my OWN school formal after party.. There were a group of u fags hanging outside.. You werent invited NO! you didnt have passes, but u still hung out.. pfft! I was with a girl a maori tryed to touch her i told him to get lost.. he called me a white pig. and then hit me with a bottle. I soccer punched him. Dropiing him to the ground (yeh i white dude dropping a 'tough' moari.. i susgest u try it.. )then repeatly smaking his face until it was unreacinsable! Dont bring your ghetoo life style to our partys!

I dont Give a F*uck about The treaty of waitangi, its a load of rubbish! You need to role over and learn that you signed something and accept it. Sigs still stand today.. u sign something u cant go back on it. You cheap losers just want free stuff so you dont have to work for it. Sooo lame. Oh, and whats with not being able to build a highway in Auckland that was going to help solve some of our roading problems... and we werent able because you said a Tanifa lived there!! OMG!!! A Tanifa.. hahah what a laugh.. Oh a make believe creature lives there. HAHHHAHA what a good reason not to make a highway. pfffffft gf. And whats gay is that it never was build beacuse of that!

Basically I Hate You Maoris, You Guys are the scum of the earth and i hope you all Die a horrible and Painful death! F*ucken Niggers!

Laters

Randy Cleaver

Hi there,

OMG i cannot believe what type of comments are coming out now regarding maori and non maori relations. Mr Randy Clever i do not know what is wrong with you but please just because you have had a bad run with some maori does not mean that they are all like that.

Yes! some of your facts are correct but it still does not give you any justification regarding your comments about maori being completly useless. Especially with your comment advising "they should be exported to another island".

Facts are facts as you may think , but the information
that you have supplied are not facts they are "i hope" statistical information gathered by participants who provided information regarding the nations state in terms of development in all appropriate fields. You are being very broad in some cases regarding the crime rate and drug use amongst maori. Instead of pointing at a problem why do you not try and contribute to an effective way of change, if not for the maori people try your own culture. Do not be so narrow in allowing me to assume nothing goes wrong in your own cultures back yard!!
Im sure your culture has drug use, violence, judicial problems, health and welfare concerns not only maori..

Before i close i would also like to say that i do not know you Randy Clever but i do wish that you have a good life in what ever you may persue. I do hope your view on maori changes if not now hopefully in the future as not all of us are what you had described and who you have encounted previously.

Cheers

Concerned about the future!

sorry i meant Randy Cleaver not Randy Clever!!

My bad!!

Concerned about the future!

Kia ora People....

Well well well...How so very bright of you Randy such intelligence. So easy to hate rather than accept .....Honestly your parents must be so proud of how you have turned out....extremely...pfftt...
Its people like you that give non-Maori a bad name....and regardless of what you say YOU have nothing to be proud of....sorry buddy but you ain't Maori...hahaha...get your facts before you post such stupid comments...Try seeking the real facts....oh that’s right your probably a dumb white lazy ass....that has to rely on the statistics that are put before you so you don't have to use you ignorant mind....get over yourself mate we don't need people like that in our country...I mean all the listings I have posted here have been very pro-maori of course....but for comments listed as the ones above that’s uncalled for and shows your true self....which is disgusting.....How terribly sad for you....to have to live your life the way you do.....mmmm very sad......sigh ....so very very boring the comments you posted.....yawn.....I shall go now and by the way....hows the saying goes once you have BLACK you never go back....lol...and as for the Maori wanting to touch the white girl....bro she was probably giving him the eye....We all know white chicks love Maori boys....lol...Randy you are fighting the inevitable....stop the envy .....I KNOW YOU WANT TO BE MAORI.....but its okay ....stop feeling inferior to my PEOPLE and I....lol....have a great day......Ka kite ano….

Andrea....Tangata Whenua.....Maori and Proud

What an interesting read.
A couple of points though, the racists who are shit stirring are at best yawn..........forgot...seen better... been hurt worse by way more profound idiots than yourselves but kia ora Im sure you mean every bit of bile you produce.
To those kaitiaki who are attempting to educate the ignorant kia kaha but always remember, you cannot awaken someone who pretends to be asleep....engari ka mihi atu koutou mo tena manaakitanga ki nga kuare uri i waiho mai nga tauiwi o nehe ra.
I te mutunga o te ra ka mohio au te tu o toku turanga, It is not dependent on approval or concensus. It is not subject to the views of the ignorant nor the views of the academically acclaimed. It exists.
Kia kaha,kia uu,kia maia,kia manawa nui

tutuboi

waaAAAHHHHH,waaAAAHHHHYYYYYYYY!!!!!........wHY are people so UNKIND!!!!!!!!!

outbackijack

I think that most of the people that don't think the majority of blacks are more racist than whites, are sadly mistaken. Look at the jails, why are the majority of jails filled by the minority of people? Hmmmm...Kind of makes you wonder, you can be idealists and dreamers, turn on your local news channel, liberal, or conservative, and tell me are more blacks, or whites commiting crimes?

James Short

dnt listen to me .........im a winner!!!!!.......not!!

James Short

I have never understood what a person gets out of picking on another by name calling by disrespecting a person because of the colour of there skin be it white, black, brown, green or even technocoloured. For you Randy Cleaver.... What are you up to man calling NZ your country!!! Yet you hate the people that are of the land ... Get a F***en Life, if you hate Maori so much you have a choice like all do so.... LEAVE!!! You go on to talk of statistics and how Maori are the biggest Crim's out well... look all over the world I bet you will find that jails are filled with mainly people of ethnic backgrounds... Big deal Ethnic races of all kinds are the ones out there who struggle mostly day to day to survive who are given little options in life, they are the ones who gert knocked down because of the colour of there skin.
I personally believe that all people should be treated as equal and that you should not be privlidged to more or less because of the colour of your skin .... I believe that everyone has a choice about what type of life they lead ...

What goin on

It is time for those Maori who live in the life of being dependant on welfare to get up off there well rounded Kumu and get a job why should you be sitting at home lapping it up living off our hard earnt taxes???? This is why Maori get such a bad name .... You think you are rippin off the system or the government by staying on the dole for all eternity... you are so wrong you are taking money from all of your own people who get out there and work day to day . Why should we all be supporting you, there is many more important causes that the money can be directed out, how about education for our children, how about for all those sick children in this world and list goes on forever and ever. Maybe we wouldnt have the never ending cycle of the dole bludging Maori if our young ones saw what it was to be determind to be hard working to respect what you have to earn the money for all the things you have ever wanted.

GET UP!!

No ammount of reasoning can sway prejudged views as displayed by some of the corrospondents to this link. As long as there is racism, their will always be in equality and it is just societies way of establishing a pecking order. Maori like paheka belong to this land and that is just the way it is. As NZ becomes more multicultural, then there is an inherent danger that this country may go the way as what is happening in England in terms of the race riots and have exploded over there.

The " blood pecentage" debate is a nonsence as it is not blood percentages that determine your culture, it is the values that one feels more strongly towards.

The welfare system was brought in by the labour goverment in 1935, and Maori leaders at that time warned our people against it. Dont forget that there were a fair percentage of paheka who were on the dole and DPB in the 1970s and 1980s as part of the drug - hippy fads that were concurrent.

Hanui

I often wonder how racists deal with the issue of their own racism when their siblings marry outside of their own values?. My partner came from a Paheka background but had a father that had some real undercurrents pertaining to Maori. His conditioning was due to many factors but in particular, that his father ripped off some of the local Maori landowners of their lands, and used the public works and and police to get rid of the local Maori after refusing to pay them for the work they did in breaking in his farm. (2)His sister got sexually involved with one of the Maori men in the group and had a child. she was told to adopt the baby out or risk losing any intitlements to the so called family estate and their name in the community. When I read " Get Up comments" are rather condensending and patronisng, When he/she receives any assistance support from WINZ or super, spare a thought when your kids apply for any emergency benefits from the goverment for what ever reasons there are and dont forget Paheka are not the only ones who pay taxes and rates.

Hanui

Kia ora Hanui

Andrea....Maori and Proud

hi i am here to let u all no that maoris are better workers than aussys.
aussys think they are the best but really maoris are,
they also do things differently and aussy think that the maoris do it wrong but really it is the aussys doing everything wrong,
like the maoris dont use a machine at a funeral the men put the coffen in the ground with their hands and they dont get a car to drive the coffen to were it lays the men carry it as well,
they also lie with the body at both the services and the tangi(funeral),
there are loads more things the do that is better than the aussy way.

maori...girl

E Kotiro Maaori!

He aha te tikanga mo ngaa tangata whenua tuturu a tuatahi kei Ahiteeira ki te nehu ngaa tuupaapaku i roto ngaa urupa ki reira? E mohio ana koe te tikanga mo ngaa iwi/ haapu ranei? Maori Girl, when you talking about Aussies, does that include the tangata whenua of those lands, the aboringines? do you know their tikanga regarding burials? Do you abide to their kawa as being manuhiri to their lands over there? What right do we as Maori have to impose our tikanga on them? He aha to whakaaro e kare?

Hanui

There are so many comments in here that i don't have time to read em all.... I am not a maori nor a kiwi! I am an immigrant!
I will focus on health side of things since thats my experties.
Clearly Maori health is not same as pakiha... therefore even if we were to ignore the treaty of waitangi about equality, I think its a duty of government to act and provide equality in what ever mean possible. Lets not forget the way we see things is different from that of maori... and I don't think any one is in the position to say who is right. Therefore if that means takin our campains regarding health, education etc... to maraes and iwi and etc then lets do what work... i.e. use what ever means possible. Reality is we will never be all the same, as we all have different back ground... but equality is something we can achive.

ME

hi!!!!

outbackijack

hell0!!!

outbackimblack

Don Brash was RIGHT,

Kiwis are leaving NZ in droves for aussie as they realise that NZ will NEVER be one race one country and the Maoris will always want more and more!

I hated it and am glad to be an aussie now as are my sister and friends!

Pete (left for aussie because of maori bs)

Yeah me too!

Also left for Aussie where people don't show their arses at the queen of england and behave like savages.

I dislike Maoris in general and NZ is going under badly as every 56% of babies born are brown.....so soon all you auckland grammar and epsom girls, Dio etc people will be wiped out by a big ugly black cloud!

Cause it's a comin!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Simon

Once again,

we find comments like those above (Simon ,Pete) that do not help the reason for this discussion topic nor do they support anything that is based upon facts.

For Pete: Kiwi's are not leaving in droves to relocate to Australia because of a "minority" ethnicity. They are leaving in droves due to the poor rate of return for labour and the lifestyle that is more so obtainable in Australia. People dont leave because they have social problems like new zealand (every other country in the world face the same problems with there indigenous cultures and the settled mass as well), you are not a war refugee who was tortured and had been ill treated by your country men or your political government. You left for future prospects and more than likely a better, financially secure life for your children if not yourself.

For Simon:Just to be Factually correct as your statistics "should" be, the dictionary meaning for savage is...
Savage: not domesticated or being under human control.Lacking the restraints normal to civilised human beings. Being interrpretated by the English word which derived from the latin salvaticus.

Ok, now that we have that noted its people like you who do not look outside of the square and look at the cause and reaction effects people portray. Your use of savage is boldy over used especially without looking deeper into the nation who created the word. Latin is one of the key languages that the english used to create there language and yet they were the most brutal , savage people to ever set foot on the earth. They are the cause for the great
inquisitions and the cause of many wars due to there loose term of savage.Millions of people had been killed , tortured,raped and undermind due to there (Roman) "thoughts" and ideas of other nations cultural values being not as superior as there own.

So i would rather be savage instead of being civilised like you who judges, percecutes and trivialises nations problems because of there colour and ethnicity.
You are no more a savage than the man you accuse of being savage!!!

Concerned about the future!

Just to note also, i have nothing against people of latin descent or any other nationality. I accept people individually and do not interpret one person (s) fault as the fault of all those in there race!!!

but then i must be a savage!
Burn me at the stake and then call me a saint 200 years later. As this is the civilised way...

Concerned about the future!

It hurts to read, many of the white people dislike maori's but the truth is, white people are naturally racist example, the Germans. If white people are not happy in NZ then haere ra(leave)it was the whites who introduced rasciam into NZ, and alot of the maoris have learnt it off the whites. Sori to say but Brash is a dreamer we are not one at all, cant you read by the comments, and it will never be.

Katarina

I've always thought that indiginous people means that they've lived in that country from the biggining, like the aborigines. Everyone that believes the truth knows that the maoris came to New Zealand on their canoes wich doesn't make them indiginous, so why do they call themselves that.

North island maoris are the worst, sitting on their asses or gambling with money that the ordinary new zealand person has had to pay for through taxs.

The labour government is so polically correct, like why is there signs with the writing translated in maori under it, most people cant even read maori so why put it there.

whats with the pakeha name, like why dont u call us british or european, we call u maori not other names.

At university when the students graduate theres all this maori stuff goes on even when most of the students aren't even maori.

Why do all these pacific islanders keep coming to NZ we dont want them here bashing their children and waisting the governments money, go back to your own island!!!

All the bloody maoris and islanders see the usa blacks being all gangster so they think they will do the sane but its not as cool so stop.

As more and more whites leave new zealand due to all the maori and islander "culture" being forced on to TV and at schools and every where you go, maori will start to get into parliment and then the laws will change to suit their lazyness the parliment will become bankrupt and probably try to go to war with some big power and then get smashed and NZ will be a poor and dieing nation.

You maori need to get over yourself, this country needs british influence so that it can stay on tracks.

show us your warrior gene

not a good future

bloody maoris

NZ

the whites are not racist its just all the politically correct maoris and people dont like what is being said, the truth hurts!!!!

Why are the maori so proud of themselves being maori when they're not even full or half maori blood, when the rest of their blood is probably european. be proud of european blood cos they're not savages killing their own family and going around thinking their tough.

stop blaming the whites for the maori being poor, if they weren't so lazy they would have a job or is that to hard to do bro?

Bullshit

i cannot believe how badly these people speak of the maori race this is so terible they are people to and i dont think that these people are thinkin before they speak we were all born in the same way why should they be disadvantaged because there a different colour yes ok i can see were some of these people are coming from i do believe that its a little unfair that they do get some benefits but i still cant and wont come to understand how some of these people can believe in such racist ways of living this is why the maori race is rebeling because they are brought up by the media as we are and to see some of these remarks as a young maori child would be an insentive to hate whites if they speak of them in this way.

the only way for us to become one is to stop all this racial behavior and publishing comments like that aint guna help

i cant believe this

Whilst I suspect that many of the preceding posts were made by a couple of people to bait the rest, I still can't believe that there is so much blatant racist feeling coming from fellow New Zealanders, most, if not all of whom are spouting ridiculous generalisations and laughably untrue "facts". If this is where National gets its support base, I'll take the extra tax thanks very much!

Shocked

im maori and i dont consider myself to be better than anyone else. i come from a school that has only two maoris in 7th form, and we are the ones who get the derogatory comments because of these issues.so if two maori boys can't receive good comments in trying to attain higher education then how do you expect the next generation to.

jay

Well, I was sitting here explaining to my wife just how great this place called NZ really was, how lovely the people were, (we're in Harrisburg,PA,USA)and then we happened upon this discussion page. Ummmm, oh dear - what exactly do I tell her now? She recently recieved her NZ Work Visa, and we're due back sometime in the coming year.

She is American, I am a New Zealander. She knows the racial problems that exist in her own country. And now in mine.

Native American Indian tribes have their land (given back to them), their issues are settled, and if you can trace your Native American Indian lineage, you apply to that tribal nation for assistance. For whatever. They don't pay tax, they have their own schools, hospitals etc and the tribe takes care of their own.

Mexicans illegally enter the country and are then supported by the taxpaying American. They work for cash, don't pay taxes but are still entitled to welfare, free lunches and handouts. And the big kicker is that you have to press '1' for English when you phone any company here.

African Americans have only recently stepped out of times (Vidor,Texas) where blacks were hung at the edge of the town to 'get the message across', her father remembers this as a child. (He is 58).

What you see on TV re: GANGSTAS, is glorified media that represents a very real problem of crime and drugs due to (in our opinion) a lack of education and overpopulation. Blacks, Mexicans,Asians,Whites together.

We are all responsible for our own path in life, and there comes a time for all to make the decision of becoming a better person, or blaming parents and the past for perpetuating their own misery.

So, if you happen to be a parent reading this, European,Maori, Asian, Pacific Islander - whomever - MAKE SURE YOUR CHILDREN GET AN EDUCATION. From the free schooling system and from yourself. Don't teach them the past, teach them the future, of NZ - it rests on all, the next generation supported by the current one.

On a previous burst of comments of people that have left for Australia because they were sick of the situation, I think the real reason was better wages and living conditions for the average man of poor education. Why else would I have come here to earn nearly three times the weekly New Zealand wage in an unskilled profession that required only the barest of High School education. In NZ, driving a truck netted $600 per week for 50 hours. One week out on the truck here netts $1600NZ.

Many of the above writers would benefit from experiencing life in another country, comparing the struggles of themselves with that of others, and then getting on with life.

We all wake up in the morning and make decisions upon where our lives are leading. Some make decisions that lead them to fail, others make ones that lead them to succeed. End of story. Make your own decision, and leave others to make theirs.

Still proud Ex-patriot Kiwi and soon to be Ex-Patriot American.

Blair McArthur and Gretchen Mabry.

Well it never ceases to amaze me. Not only are we supposively trapped in our past, we are also trapped by others detemining our futures.

Whether its neo-liberalists trying to tell Maori how to live their lives, and saying we all this or all that etc. Or people who have reborn overseas and then coming home and saying we should do this and do that, not to mention refugees and immigants (20 000 a year coming), and 20 thousand NZers leaving. Are we really a melting pot or is the power for running the country entirely in the wrong hands.

I think the day we become a republic will a very interesting day indeed. Pakeha will have to give everything back to Maori. Including land, forests, seabed, forshores, everything that is was in the Treaty. You see Maori were never conqueored by the British, and they paniced because there were other foreign investors here at the same time and feared they would miss out on this paradise so decided to strike a deal. The Treaty was ahead of its time as there is no other deal like it. Yes there is heaps of Treaties in the world, and yes heaps of them have been broken, but guess what? Maori were given their sovreignity- Hello?!!! That means we have rights as indigenous people to our whenua and to all the resources prior to the signing----guess what that includes Petroleum, Gold, Green Stone and everything......better get to used it...but Maori are here forever....and we are getting more organised and richer...



Anyway back to the Treaty- In their haste they forgot to translate it into Maori (which is the version the majority Maori signed- forget the Pakehea version it is non-in-void). The Maori version guranatees their tino rangatirtanga status and for you culturally iliterate people that means absolute leadership to govern how Maori want to. Read it for yourself. If we dont teach the Treaty in schools and dont make Maori compulsory in out schools today----that is blatant racism. How ignorant or culturally blind can the government be when in actual fact Maori was the first official language in Aotearoa. Theres is only reason why they dont make it compulsory...and it aint got nothing to do with its not the main language of the world...another neo-liberal arguement that holds no weight....they simply dont want it because it gives more power to Maori. Not only is the Maori langauge a spiritual language it also the langauge that typfies what makes us unique in this place of chaos called the world. Get over yourselves and start promoting Maori language as a compulsory language. Do your research and you will find that being bi-lignual helps students to be more intellectual not less intellectual. Stop making Maori langauge optional you baldheads.


Kia ora

A True Half-Caste Maori

Kia ora ano,


i forgot to say that Brash was on his way out of politics long before he spoke at Orewa. You cant try and change what is currently in place with out building allegiences.

If Brash thinks he has brought issues of race and privilege into the light and to deny Maori their status in NZ...he sadly mistaken. He didnt even read the Treaty what a nut case-interview in Mana magazine.

Oh it doesnt matter what govt gets in place...it can be easily overturned just look at Fiji...Maori love that stuff!! Hopefully we dont have to go down that track but its always a possibility.

Imagine if Brash had got in and decided to throw all Maori legislation, the Treaty, all Maori seats out of Parliament. My goodness....but hey I would of welcomed that because you would see a major transformation occur faster than what we are seeing now. The govt woud have been taken to task big time.

Remember the Treaty is between the Crown and not govt who look after the very day rights of NZ citizens. This govt has not mandate to remove Maori from anything.

Brash was cancerous that for sure....but really stupid. And all he did was heighten racisim more...what and idiot....Mr Keys you have some real hard shoes to fill....lol

True Half Caste

I live in Australia where the Aboriginals are still viewed as second class citizen.Here in Australia, I as a Moari woman, am given more respect than the indigenous of this land, then I do in my own country. Yes, its hardcore over here! Is our culture only good for the Pakeha when money can be made, or the haka is performed on the world stage for the million of rugby union fans to see, or the words Kia Ora to help in tourism promos to intice visitors with wealth to our shores. You cant change the past, but we can do something about the ignorance we have about both Maori and Pakeha Cultures. By the way there are no full blood maori in my generation I'm 32. I am New Zealand Maori because I was brought up with traditional ways. I embrace pakeha culture too because its my make up.

Internation Maori

I live in Australia where the Aboriginals are still viewed as second class citizen.Here in Australia, I as a Moari woman, am given more respect than the indigenous of this land, then I do in my own country. Yes, its hardcore over here! Is our culture only good for the Pakeha when money can be made, or the haka is performed on the world stage for the million of rugby union fans to see, or the words Kia Ora to help in tourism promos to intice visitors with wealth to our shores. You cant change the past, but we can do something about the ignorance we have about both Maori and Pakeha Cultures. By the way there are no full blood maori in my generation I'm 32. I am New Zealand Maori because I was brought up with traditional ways. I embrace pakeha culture too because its my make up.

Internation Maori

Kia ora International Maori,

My Dad is a 100 percent Maori and is indeed, a very rare human being. Although, he no longers speaks Maori he understands much of what is said. My dad is 70 yrs old and never knew about this idea of blood quantum theorising which was used to divide and conqueor Maori off their land. I mean the whole court system ripped Maori off big time. My great great great grandfather couldn't even read or write English, let alone understand English law like succession, or partition orders or the like. I have a land court document where he has signed with a X....what the hell were these people thinking...

My philosophy is simple about the past....if you owned a car...and it was stolen or confiscated or alienated against....and sold for 1 dollar, and then 20 years later sold for a million dollars by some huge coporate business....whose car is it?????

We have heaps of Maori living overseas and I hear good reports of what they are doing etc, but why, when we have so much work to do here for Maori. It amazes me!!!

Yes I understand the racism that is occurring and there is better money and Maori kids are doing better in the schools overseas, more opportunities etc, but there is lots of work to do here also.

My mission in life is to regain back our land...I dont care how....and to unite my whanau in te reo Maori and tikanga Maori....till death do us part...Amen!!!

True Half Caste

Kia ora International Maori,

My Dad is a 100 percent Maori (I have his birth certificate that verifies this- both parentsodentified as Maori of full blood) and is indeed, a very rare human being. Although, he no longers speaks Maori he understands much of what is said. My dad is 70 yrs old and never knew about this idea of blood quantum theorising which was used to divide and conqueor Maori off their land. I mean the whole court system ripped Maori off big time. My great great great grandfather couldn't even read or write English, let alone understand English law like succession, or partition orders or the like. I have a land court document where he has signed 49 acres of land with a X....what the hell were these people thinking...

My philosophy is simple about the past....if you owned a car...and it was stolen or illegally confiscated or alienated against....and sold for 1 dollar, and then 20 years later sold for a million dollars by some huge coporate business....whose car is it?????

We have heaps of Maori living overseas and I hear good reports of what they are doing etc, but why, when we have so much work to do here for Maori. It amazes me!!!

Yes I understand the racism that is occurring and there is better money and Maori kids are doing better in the schools overseas, more opportunities etc, but there is lots of work to do here also.

My mission in life is to regain back our land...I dont care how....and to unite my whanau in te reo Maori and tikanga Maori....till death do us part...Amen!!!

True Half Caste

Im rather ashamed of New Zealand (Auckland in particular) because of A FEW Maori picking fights at night and threatening people, stealing cars, breaking into houses e.t.c... And although I know that other races commit these disgusting crimes, it is Maori in particular based on facts and statistics. Now, I have Maori friends also and when I go out at night I would rather not walk around in fear of being "jumped" for my wallet, cellphone e.t.c, but INSTEAD make a few friends with Maori (which I have in some cases). I ALSO think it's disgusting how people, European and Maori, are racist to each other in the way we see everyday. It REALLY makes me angry though when a white person is racist to a Maori (calling them "nigger", "brown", "poor" "dumb" or whateva) and then they get beaten up for it, told off by school teachers, arrested e.t.c. But do Maori think that I like being called "white C**T, White boy, Pakeha(white pig i think), Honky e.t.c NO. But it's never a big deal when white people get racially discriminated. I am proud of my race JUST as much as Maori are proud of theirs. I hope that nobody, White or Maori, find any content in my post racist or degrading. If you do I apologise.

I hope one day that Maori and White people will live together in Peace and Harmony, as other cultures in other countries have proved that THEY can't (America, South Africa, South America e.t.c... LET'S NOT BE LIKE THEM HEY??

Ashamed

all the tribes in new zealand and australia, the english kicked your spear throwing arse once, don't make us do it again. we nicked off with your country fair and square, it's ours now. you can have it back if you can overthrow white rule

what's not fair about that?? we beat your arses so we could have ourselves another country, and you can have it back if you kill us all.

Paul

THERE IS GOOD AND BAD IN EVERY RACE! IF ONE RACE SEEMS TO HAVE AN IMAGE AS BEING AGGRESSIVE OR WHATEVER ITS BECAUSE MAJORATY OF THAT RACE ARE BEHAVING THAT WAY. BUT IT DOESNT MEAN THEY AS A PEOPLE ARE ALL THAT WAY! AT THE END OF THE DAY IT DEPENDS ON THE INDIVIDUAL. WRONGDOERS SHOULD STOP POINTING THE FINGER FOR THEIR SHORTCOMINGS AND DO SOMETHING TO BETTER THEMSELVES. YOU DONT NEED A CERTAIN SKIN COLOUR OR MONEY TO BE A DECENT, KIND HUMAN BEING. ITS UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL. NO RACE IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER! BUT SO MANY THINK THEY ARE:(

k

Maori hand outs are wrong, and I want it to end. Maoris at my school are a minority and that is a good thing because so many fights come out of a small number of people and I wonder what it would be like if there were more.

Jondor

hitler had some good ideas about racial purity i think we should obtain this into NZ

9988

Don Brash is a noob

N00b

well..um..sme maoris are cool...nd yet i am samoan I dislike the fact of racism descrimination because it affects the New-Zealand and the our community...I am only 16 years of age and i stand against racism. we are all new zealnder so why be races to each other.

We are all one in God and people just turn out different and you have to face it whether you like it or not,thats the way it is.

lets stop being racism and make the new zealnd a better place by making peace and preach the word of god around so that everyone can make it to heaven...

peace em out...

Orisca

Any person can be succesful in life. It is a shame that a lot of people, not just maori, grow up in a social environment that hinders their chance of success.
I believe everyone should be treated equal, meaning also that poor people are given help based on their need and not on their race. New Zealand needs to have a government in place that leads us on the road to becoming one people. Scrap special treatment for maori, scrap the treaty, support help for anyone who needs it!

NZer

All,

First of all before i proceed with my message let me tell you something...

My former partner who i had kids to moved to NZ with her boyfriend and my kids while i was away on Military Duties (care of the USMC). I met her in AU, my parents bought her a car, i bought us a house and i gave her money on a fortnightly basis to pay the bills and spend it on the kids. I was away for months at a time. Upon my return from duty i discovered that for 8 months countless bills were unpaid, my daughters lacked of new clothing and she had another boyfriend who drove the car my parents bought her. She moved to NZ taking AUD15000 with her. She is a Maori, her boyfriend is a Maori. Her mother would ring my parents and abuse them because "we are greedy" and because we refused to give her the money we recieved from a refunding a ticket that we paid for her to attend my daughters baptism. I was never a racist, i work in an AO that was far worst than most people can ever dream of.

I can fill this whole forum with countless incidents and facts that involved Maoris.

My family lives in a town called Werribee, Victoria. When we first arrived there we were the first brown skinned people. For 6 years we were the only brown people there. Yes we got some racist comment but... let me say that these comments were humorous. The people that did say these comments became close friends of my family. They assumed that the brown people they see on TV committing crimes, shooting and mugging others is what they do on their spare time lol. This town was filled with friendly civilians but now, a large number of Pacific Islanders and Maoris have migrated and located themselves in Werribee. My friends call me and tell me how the street that was once on the covers of Home & Gardens, a street that you could only see in movies have turned into something quite similar to South Auckland. Inorganics sit in front of houses all year round, parties are constant with "white" neighbours being taunted by Maori families. Maori and PI friends that lived in the next suburb to me who were born and raised in Victoria are all ashamed. You will never hear a Maori or Islander saying "i'm embarrassed to be one of them".

I've been in Auckland for 3 years now, my only run-ins and altercations have been with Maoris and Islanders. I have white, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, German, Swedish, Iraqi, Samoan friends. All have been bullied and jumped at ATMs by Maoris and Islanders. All feel intimidated by Maoris and Islanders, but funny thing is all earn a whopping 70k plus per year. All studied and worked at the same time without any assistance. My Samoan friend was raised not be like his cousins, his parents are proud kiwis. They have turned their lifestyle around and coincidently became quite wealthy. Now they drill the same method to their kids who all on their own will and power are employed in big companies and earning 70k plus per annum. We did have a few Maori friends, who every time we went out never had money to catch a cab, burrowed money and never paid it back, asked to wear our clothes or stole our colognes. They no longer hang out with us after we had told them to quit what they were doing, they took this the wrong way and called us a bunch of racist clowns. Every time we see them, they tend to get aggressive.

My partner is a Niuean who refuses to become friends with her own nationality or ethnic background because of the shame they cause. I will admit.. She has become a racist through her own personal experiences. A former friend of hers used to work with me. She was off work for 2 months after a surgery. I assisted her financially for 4 weeks. Which was NZD150 a week and also bought her lunch every day. She was Tongan, her boyfriend was a Maori. One day i asked her for 40 cents for the coke machine, she got up and in a weird type of manner tried to be funny by trying to embarrass me. She said "must you always scab"? "i'm always having to help you out". I looked at her and felt quite offended by that, especially giving her NZD200 just 2 days before hand. I told my partner she owes me money, and when my partner approached her for the money she claimed that i had never assisted and that her boyfriend will "beat me up" if i continue to ask... Now she is dead, she was found hung alongside her boyfriend from a tree outside her mothers house... Kidding.

I have friends who have to tell their own friends in Europe and Asia that not all Kiwis are like what they see on TV. Not all beat their wives up, not all are thieves, not all are baby killers. What a shame, you Maoris say we are all racist by pin-pointing issues like this? Quit turning a blind eye on subjects like this every time it arises. It's funny how MANY Maoris are calling Aussies racist because of the ABO issue. Grow up, educate yourselves properly and mind your own business. John Howard is doing the right thing. To avoid kids being raped, wives being beaten and the town turning into turmoil take away the main problem... ALCOHOL. It's as simple as saying "my father used to beat my mom up every time he would drink, now that he has quit we are a better family". You Maoris should worry about your "youths & family" killing and torturing their own children. I have managed to pull my daughter out her mothers care, after the beatings, the neglect and near molestation from her mothers family. Oh and by the way, i still pay child support even though my kids are in my care. How? Go figure!

And why is it that so many Maoris and Islanders think they are American? Your behaviour is such a laughing stock in the US. I am an American, and i know, yes "go back to your own country". Grow up. You don't hear people saying go back to Hawaiki or where ever you migrated from. What is with the wanna-be African American slang? The fake American accents? OMG, get over it wanna-bes! You mock white-guys trying to be black, but damn you Maoris and Islanders are the BIGGEST bunch of wannabes. You Maoris and Islanders (not all) are different because you made yourself different. You refuse to be segregated from the population and request to be treated with respect and yet you have the right to racially taunt whites, Chinese and other nationalities. Such hypocrites, always looking to point the finger at the whites, the Aussies, the US military, the Chinese, the Indians.

WE are all willing to help all Maoris and Islanders in becoming a better and more respected group but with the way you guys look at others nothing will ever work out. We have funded and assisted in alot of marketing for your culture, but we never asked for credit. The moment some nationality mimics the Haka you request to have it cancelled and request a payment of respect and funds (ofcourse).

Just a quick note, I don't hate Maoris and Islanders. Just the ones i see and know in my area of residence and employment. I know there is alot of beautiful and caring Maoris and Islanders, most out-number the f*ckfaces i know or have had experiences with.

Hand of God

Sorry, just amending an error from a previous post of mine.

Line: You refuse to be segregated from the population - should be - You REQUEST to be segregated from the population

Hand of God

By the way just another thing.

When the rest of the population aims at a Maori individual for a crime that he/her committed this doesn't mean we are aiming at all Maoris. It seems every time a Maori does commit murder or some crime that becomes publicised they are automatically defended by alot of Maori groups and this becomes a war of the racist. Instead of sugar coating the crime help the individual out by exterminating him/her, construct some sort of standard of living. It's no longer about who did what in the past. You don't hear a white boy saying your people raped my mother 20 years ago and i refuse to let you go near my kids, I'm not white, im brown by the way. But all i ever hear is "because the Europeans did this to us in the past... blah... blah.. crap.. blah". I can drill kids better than i can teach a Maori some discipline and open their minds to other things.

I also made a complaint and fought the school council that my daughter attends about the language they teach. I refuse my daughter to learn the Maori language, i TOTALLY disagree with it. Will the Maori language give her an advantage? If so please explain. I also noticed that the vocab of a majority of the kids in my daughters school is pathetic. These kids are all talking street slang. When i talk to them they ask what this and that word means. I have to pay extra money for my daughter to attend a school that doesn't teach Maori and lacks of Maori and Island students. Sorry, but they are a bad influence. My partner and myself discovered that my daughters lunch was being shared with other students even though she did not agree with it. Her teacher's rule is that if another kid does not have lunch you must share yours with theirs. We discovered that, get this, out of the 15 students in that classroom only 8 brings lunch to school and the other 7 students who are Maori and Islander are the same students on a daily basis that do not bring lunch. At a parent discussion night, the parents of these students automatically called everyone else selfish and racist because we said we refuse our kids to share their lunch with other students all because the parents "do not have time to make their lunch". What a stupid excuse. She now attends a new school where there is a very small number of Maori and islanders attending with a majority of Asian and European. Her reading went from terribly bad for her age to extremely well and advanced, her hand-writing now puts mine to shame. Her vocab is excellent and does not use stupid street slang.

I had an altercation with a Maori employee at work who began insulting the military in the US after reading my profile on a "confidential document". He stated that because he is Maori and Maoris are known for their tactical behaviour at tribal war and the fact that they all once was at war this made him more a war-machine than the standard soldier/marine/sailor. Ok, i know he lacks in correct education but for crying out loud at least have some common sense before spitting out words out of your a22. When this employee also discovered that i was in a better financial situation than his whole family is he became quite aggravated. He started to scratch my car (got caught on camera), wanted to fight me and tried reporting me to the Managing Director that i have been operating some illegal business. The same individual made a pass on my partner during last years Christmas function. He saw us walked in, he saw us holding hands but decided he can make a move. He was embarrassed in front of a large number of people when he was rejected by my partner. His response: "f*ck you b*tch, i'll throw you off the balcony, sl*t". I wont describe what happened to him after that. Lets just say 7 out of the 13 Maoris and Islanders working in my company has been the centre of attention with similar situations in a number of events.

Maoris say that their people and culture are the most friendliest of all and that they are all very caring. This is what they tell tourists in Rotorua, well damn it live up to it. Prove it instead of talking it all the time.

Hand of God

Maoris will not be around forever, half caste, you see with every other race they breed with the Maori blood percentage will lessen. Maori will one day die out, but that's okay because the human race will have probably destroyed itself by then :).

I don't have anything against the Maori race, just the ones that steal, fight, kill, swear, spit, bully, yell, try and be warriors etc. Basically 100% of the Maori......fucking scum......piss off!

Anonymous

Ur dad aint 100% maori HALF CASTE, thats bs, the last "true-maori" died years ago....stop filling in the stereotype and LYING and CHEATING your way thru life....

pfffft bs

This is the best blog ever!! it's been going strong for almost 4 years now... I have read many of the posts and have my own opinion on the matter, but have decided not to add much of it to the blog.

Interesting reading tho. Especially when just tonight I have been reading about when James Cook founded NZ and how at one point the crew on his boat would have preferred to have hit the rocks and drown, than go ashore to the Maori's.

Cannibalism was prevalent among the Maori until well into the 1800's (when the white man obviously tamed their animalistic ways).

Pino

Oh my god,I can't believe how long this blog has been going, awesome!!
Well I have to say, 'Hand of God' I am with you 100%.I am sorry you have to see what the scum of this country are like but welcome to my world, I know its a laughing stock what these guys get up too and who they think they are.
I am a kiwi who has been travelling o'seas and just returned. I have the utmost respect for maori culture but unfortunately that culture is very seldom found these days , all we have are a bunch of wanna be american gangs bangers "crips up bloods down" honestly, I think if most of them saw some real gangs they would sh1t their pants!
Grow up just be proud of who you are and try to find your own identity, instead of adopting what you see on MTV, you were not slaves, and you have not been treated unfairly like the negoes in the US were in the past.
Plus hows about paying back some of the rent for using our land for a few hundred years before we got here?!

Ha ha

freestyler

Hey True Half Caste,
Your grand father is 100% maori, but can't even speak his language, what a joke!!!
And your mission in life is to get your land back, and unite in te reo, well hey why not start by teaching your grandfather how to speak it!! ha ha
What I don't get is why is it your land?
You compare it to buying a car and having it stolen off you? Who did your ancestors buy the "car" from? No one they just came here and started living. They didn't even have such formal agreements as ownership of the land. Just get off your high horse and start living mate, as soon as you get rid of the chip off your shoulder the better off you and yours will be.
And also if you are a true half caste,doesn't that make you half-victim and half perpetrator? So in effect you are moaning about yourself as well! And does that mean the pakeha half of you has to give everything you own to the maori half or what? Hmmm confusing.

freestyler

Sorry I meant to say father not grandfather..

freestyler

the maori think that just because they were here frist that they deserve all these special rights well news flash to all use out there that think this you dont. in no way at all does this make u better than any1 eles coz your not not a tiny bit stop going on and just get over it we all live in thius country and we all have to live by the same laws.

peace.xxx

georgia and stacey

here here georgia and stacey well said. i think you echo what is on the minds of most kiwis.

freestyler

Why the hell do we have to use the word 'pakeha', it is not an English word by derived from a mud language so why must we use it. This is a white nation and I want it to stay that way. If the maoris want to make their own nation good on them it means i wont have to see them any more, YAY!
Samoans have no right being here so why don't they hop back into their canoes and paddle back to Bonga land.
Same as chinks. If there was no mud in this country no crime would arise, because it comes from the 'ape' races.

Bill

wow! i didnt think any of you's pakeha's or Tauiwi's(foreigners) had the balls to say what you think, good on you! even though i dont think you would have said that s*** to our faces cause yes you would have gotten smashed. Us maoris have had to put up with that s*** practically all our lives i'm 40 i come from Otara Otara was first populated by Pakeha's our street only had 2 black arsed Families on it mine and these Samoans down the road, they had a Pakeha Last name(haha) the pakehas always looked offended by us when we as kids used to play with their kids, we were never allowed into their homes we always had to wait outside for them to come out,and were sometimes or most times not invited to our pakeha friends Birthday parties but hey we got over it.
On my first day at school 2 pakeha boys stood over me calling me black arse and n***** boy get back to the wopwops they reckon, they were bigger than me but it didnt stop me from smashing them both they ran to the teacher and cried their little eyes out for that i was given 6 of the best i never held that against them i still see the bigger one of the 2 around he rides a harley and sells drugs in the neighborhood, a neighborhood that is now predominantly Maories and Coconuts all the Pakehas having moved to Warkworth(haha)and yes my kids get to enter many of these homes on my street and many of these parents frequently come over for a chat or a beer something my Olds always says never happened when the Pakeha's lived in those same houses.
So mayby alls turned out well for one of the baddest towns in NZ as for the crime rates this is due largely to the consumption of alcohol and drug abuse which leads to violence theft rape intimidation which as a child in Otara in the seventies was mainly perpatrated by Pakeha, was adopted by many of us blakarsed n***** from the wopwops who had to for necessity sake to survive in what they said was "their town" we had many pitched battles with these pakehas, street against street or really street against isolated maori or even coconut whanau so we fought back heavily outnumbered sticks stones crude weapons just like that movie Sword and the Switchblade we had to literally fight for our lives is this the Pakeha notion of 'one nation'now unfortunately i've told my son 'dont back down to anyone especially Pakehas' they f*** with you smash em!
Most of the Families on my street are low socio economic families trying to eek out a living on minimum wage whilst trying to combat all the other influences that are corrupting our children even though they get a good education, as well as trying to work for mainly Pakeha Companies many of us are bombarded by Pakeha Rhetoric and Philosophy some succomb these are usually the latest Imports who think thats the way it is one Malayan fulla here said 'you look afa dem dey look afa you' poor fulla.
Me my whanau we're lucky we get to go home to the wops and survey whats left of our lands and for a time forget about the bigoted Pakeha world even though they infringe on our territory our thoughts customs and traditions everyday but like my Full blooded Maori Father and my Full blooded Maori mother used to say every time i moaned "e ha kia tau te rangimarie" "kei te atua te mana me te kaha ki te whakatikatika nga mahi he ote Kawanatanga te Pakeha hoki"(hey boy show them compassion only god has the authority and power to straighten the Pakeha people and the government out)
"Chur neat aye!" so he has here in 2008 Old Dunny Brush has been flushed and his Orewa speech consigned to the toilet along with much of the Pakeha Rhetoric and his Party has found a new Messiah in JK and all you bigots that aired your views on line were caught out and left to flounder in your folly HAHAHAHAHAAA.Good Job more sticks and stones.
Also the word Pakeha according to my Full blooded grandfather and Full blooded Nana is a transliteration of a Pakeha word used by all the first Paa-kee-haa who sailed here "Bugga ya!"
'hea na!(take that!) Check that word out in the Oxford dictionary.
oh my mummies mum and dad are full on Maori Bloods aswell i try to identify with my Bugger ya side but i'm too far gone KIA TAU TE RANGIMARIE.
Oh Yeah the Tiriti say Te Kawanatanga o o ratou Whenua which means Governorship of their own lands, o o ratou meaning their lands not mine Bugger ya's.

natty

I used to live in NZ but I left to move to Australia. I guess the dream of financial freedom and a better quality of life was too much to resist. The major reason for my move was that my wife and myself were ready to have children and needed to make the best choice about where to raise our kids. No brainer - I can't even conceive of living in NZ, not a week wouldn't go by when I would walk down the street and hear the all too familiar phrase ....."got an eye problem bro" ...Wow what a lifestyle.

In my ten years as a late teen and a young man I would have gotten in to about 15 fights, because I stick up for myself and don't take terrorism (yes terrorism in any way shape or form) lightly. My right to be a peaceful, kind socially conscious, tax paying citizen and not be hassled is a fundamental right and my two kids were never going to be subject to the rubbish I had to endure. 7 Different cities In
NZ I lived and nothing changed. Now over here in Aus life is fantastic and the people are all hard working and goal oriented. Unfortunately in the ten years I have lived here had two run ins (not bad for ten years) and they were both with two Maori's. The first was an incident where a very large Maori gentleman decided to pick on a 18 year old white kid half his size (the boy suffered a fractured skull and several cerebral trauma) my friends and myself stopped the assailant and managed to subdue him. He brought shame to all New Zealanders living in Australia as the press usually report
New Zealand national not Maori as racial profiling is frowned upon. Four years later a young Maori boy about 9yrs old knocked over my 3yr old daughter accidently, when my son 5yrs old told him to "watch out for my sister" the maori boy punched my son in the face cutting his lip. Every single person in surfers paradise macdonalds gave the parents a peace of their collective mind after I told the boys dad what happened and his reply was shut up or I will shut you up.

It's hard to look with favor upon the Maori race when every caucasion in Australia wants Maoris banned from entering the country. I really don't want to be racist and it takes a lot of effort to be rational and not resort to insults - I don't want to be that person, but my experiences are real and in reality quite disgusting.

Experiences don't lie, reality doesn't lie and statistic(mostly)don't lie. If the truth is racist then racsim needs redefining. I hope the gimme money mindset gets replaced with a working hard is good mindset. I hope the our people were warriors therefore we are tough mindset gets replaced with a I should treat people well because I can make people proud of my race for the right reasons.



Not a single issue in five years and my kids are happy and life is good here in Aus.

Ex Kiwi

Maoris are not natives - They moved to NZ from other countries,
the'y are Polynesian and have no more rights to Claim ownership than any white person. The "it our land " claim is rubbish because it's not their land. Without the white mans technology they would have wiped each other out - God we should have waited
100 yrs then it would've been Nouvelle Francaise - Get it?

Lazy, violent, uneducated, irresponsible and without doubt CRIMINALS.


Stop giving them my tax money, I work 60 hours per week have no partner or kids and pay $500 a week tax for those bastards to bully me and my friends - I'm sick of it.

Give them Stewart Island and 500 million dollars and watch them fight blow the money and come back wanting more.

Maoris need to evolve and it's not racist to be sick of a MAJORITY. The majority are bad not the minority. Don't stick them in jail - Put on an island to fend for themselves.


Stop feeding these violent bastards and start helping those who deserve help.

No wonder all the best and brightest leave and go to Australia
and England - More money no Maoris to support. It's one thing to pay tax but it is another thing to support the people
that treat you and your family violently.

Logical

Ask yourself, what do you like about being whatever race you are? If your answer is basically you like that you are'nt like a Maori then you fail to see what racism has taken from you. Your ability to identify with your own culture. You have lost yourself, your heritage and your culture in your assimilation with New Zealand whiteness. Dont take your hatred out on an entire ethnic group just because you cant define your own.

Maori/Scottish/Irish/Welsh

Where you are born, what race you are and how wealthy your parents are, are all completely random.

You have no control over what race you are which is why racism is bad.........on the other hand, you have 100% free will and 100% ability to exercise control over the way you treat others, whether you work and how you want to be portrayed.

The majority of hard working people aren't wrong here, they are bullied, harassed and humiliated by Maori folk and they have had enough.

If your race is completely arbitrary...then isn't racist to only care about the "culture" of your race and to be proud of your race.

IT WORKS BOTH WAYS - You can not judge race either way in racism.

Pride in your race is like taking pride in an inanimate object like a sewing machine - random.

If you can not judge a race by the overwhelming criminal/lazy/bigoted elements then neither can they judge themselves nor be proud of themselves.

<b>My Point</b>

The action, achievements and misgivings of my ancestors are completely and utterly not my fault. I take no responsibility for anything white people have done to other people - This means good nor bad.

I have no right to be proud of successful white people nor do I have any right to be guilty for any ill deeds of caucasians.

To do either is to make an arbitrary leap.


If Maoris want to take pride in their collective achievements then they MUST bear the shame of judgment. It's tough luck.


You can not be proud of your heritage, no matter what race you are - that is bigotry.

Maxum

Tino Rangatiratanga!

tt

parlez vous Francias

Not Ignorant

the money that we get is what we call "blood money" anyway

tt

You Mean Cannibal Money

smarter

We Don't want the bloody Maoris over here and I wish they would send them back to NZ. Most of them are on the dole.

Unlike in NZ, We don't have to put up with their crap, but if we ban kiwis from living here then we would lose a lot of pre- educated, hard working white people.

Whenever a kiwi commits a crime over here it's always a bloody moari and 99% of the worst crime VIOLENT CRIME is moaris.

I wish they would piss of back to their own Sh#thole and leave us in peace.

Aussie Joe

Pakeha were cannibals aswell

dave

Why is it so hard for people to just expect to be treated equally.


No race should receive more than another.

White New Zealanders make up 82% of the population
*They pay 99.8781 % of all taxes

*Commit 4% of all violent crime

*Commit 6% of all convicted murders

It is fair that they expect equal treatment.

Maori New Zealanders 11%(this does not include Islanders):

*Consume 37% of all tax expenditure

*Account for just 0.1229 % of tax revenue

*Take up 41% of prisons

*Commit 48% of all violent crimes

*commit 69% of all murders.


Why are white people wanting an end to Maori welfare ....Because it's not working (or at least they aren't.


Nobody wants to pay tax to the same people who rob,rape and murder them, it's NOT racism it's common sense brought on by basic shock therapy.

It's not racist to quote statistics, and the stats tell the story, - If the white man wiped out the Maori, then they would be safer and wealthier than ever.

The Maoris need to put their hand back in the pocket and pick up a shovel and GET A F@#KING JOB.


How can anyone think I'm being unreasonable.

average

Pakeha need to be accountable about the wrong doings of the past because they obviously didnt stick to Te Tiriti o Waitangi.

tt

If White people need to be accountable for the wrong doings of past white people to whom they bear no relation, then Maori should be held accountable for all the crime they have been a part of.

Average

like what?? besides nearly all maori signed the maori version of the Treaty and not the pakeha 1 anyway

tt

and all those who signed the treaty are dead and buried.

There descendants have now bred and intermingled with the very pakeha that they want to have make reparations to them.

It's not your country, you found it.

Maoris are nothing but ex asians who found a beautiful country and killed the moa, the pakatoa and the rangitea.

Now you expect money for nothing - Well guess what, you're not getting anymore hand outs - Get a job and earn it like caucasians do.


Maori will NEVER benefit from hand outs - NO RACE DOES.


Look at American Indians & Australian Aboriginies they take no responsibility and they go NOWHERE.

When Maori decide that working hard, being good citizens and contributing to society is the right way to better themselves then they will all be more wealthy, successful and happy.


Will it ever happen - NO. The Maori mindset is firmly stuck in the "Poor Me" syndrome - Toughen the F*&k up and deal with it.

New Zealand is a beautiful country, but only a handful of races are contributing, whilst the others SUCK IT DRY.

Wake up Maoridom and TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY.


IF you area poor and you don't have a job - IT IS NO ONE ELSES FAULT THAT YOU ARE POOR.

The white man owes you nothing, they have given, given and gave some more and you have taken, taken and taken from the fruits of their hard work and technology.


No more handouts.

Average

Why is it so hard for pakeha like yourself to acknowledge that your ancestors done wrong by not fufilling the pakeha version of the treaty?

tt

As for "maori contributing to society" haha! little do you know my pakeha friend.

tt

Why do you want reparation so bad.

Why is it so hard for YOU to admit pakeha deserve reparation for all the criminal activity bestowed by the Maori.

Why is it so hard for you to admit Maori DO NOT take responsibility for their actions.

And what makes you sure I'm a pakeha?

Maori have signed many - And I mean MANY governmental contracts over the decades - Of which they have at some stage broken All of them.

Why are they so keen to only see that one contract that will give them handouts enforced ....Because it's about money not pride.


The Treaty Of Waitangi was not signed by any ancestors of mine and yet why should I (if Maori or not ) receive or pay anything?


It is an antiquated contracted that bears NO significance to the modern world.


There are NO full blooded Maori and even if they were they MAY not be descendants of the original signees.

Therefor there are no one that the Treaty represents in full.


It's all semantics after that, but you keep your hand out, while hard working pakeha keep paying taxes

Average

Wow!

ned

Definitions of reparation on the Web:

-compensation (given or received) for an insult or injury; "an act for which there is no reparation"

-A payment of time, effort or money to undue past transgression(s); The act of renewing or restoring.

kawa

Imagine if every convicted murderer, rapist of thief had to make reparation to their victims?

Imagine if every wrong doing by every race, creed, religion or gender was subject to reparation?

Imagine if we went all the way back to medieval times - Better yet, biblical times?

No one is innocent/Everyone is guilty or

No one is guilty/Everyone is innocent


Nobody can have it both ways, yet everyone wants to have it both way.


For me, all that matters is the here and now!

Easy

If everyone got reparation, then the Maori would get nothing and they would owe every body money.

The Treaty is old and should be dead and buried with ours and their ancestors.

Are tt and Average arguing about the treaty or about who owes who for what?

Gristle

Maori should just take what is rightfully theres and stuff the pakeha pigs.

iwi

Just try it iwi and see who gets smashed bro!

Realist

Iwi is just typical of his kind - Violent and ignorant.


How can anyone take Maori seriously when they contribute sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
little to New Zealand society.

They commit crime, they moan, they put their hand out and want
more.


With the exception of a few, they en masse contribute very little to the prosperity, happiness and health of the nation
and everyone else would be happier, richer and safer without
Maori.

That is a cold hard fact!


Call me a racist - I don't care - What I'm saying is real.


My families safety and future is ALLLLL that matters to me.

blather

This thread has been going for years now, surely that must show how much white New Zealanders have had a guts full of Maori handouts.

If you had a consensus vote tomorrow, the Maoris wouldn't get squat and that would be fair enough.

They can't look after themselves so we get taxed to babysit their vulnerabilities. I wish we could just cut their bullshit benefits right now.

mummabear

tt, what are you on???

JONDOR

It amuses me that the overwhelming majority of Maori seek to whine and complain about an ancient document of little more than historical value, yet they can not seem en masse to adhere to common law.

Stop citing the law when you can't seem to obey it yourselves, lest you be hypocrites - Yes?

Prometheus

"Don Brash Calls for One People" pft..im glad he's out.

Typical Tauiwi! and here HE was getting money from a "gang"(the exclusive brethren)of religous freaks supporting politics.

Mana

Greetings,

I spent quite a bit of time last night going through the posts here, attempting to get just a little more enlightened about the thoughts of people in New Zealand.

I have not yet been to New Zealand. And even though I think of you and your home daily, I do profess to you a great ignorance. But perhaps because of my ignorance, I can offer you a point of view "from a distance" that I want very much to be of value to you.

We are on this planet for such a very short time. When I look in the mirror I don't see a person whose mother was from Norway and whose father was from Chicago (whose grandfather was from Ireland and whose grandmother was from the Chippewa Nation). What I see instead is a spirit in a "meatsack" - a "ghost in the machine". In other words, what ever I am, I am not of this temporal world. I'm only visiting, and for a very short time.

And with the time I have remaining, one of the things I want most is to visit your beautiful land, the land you ALL call HOME. There is no where else on the planet like it. And there are millions of others who, like the nomad I am, would love to see if it is the place we have been looking for.

Perhaps it is not. I must admit, the posts here have given me doubts. But I want to suggest to you something that may be a key. A way to a possible future where all on the planet know of New Zealand as a land of freedom, opportunity, justice and peace. A model for all nations to look to for inspiration and guidance.

You must use your love of the land as your common bond. It is what you share. And given the magical land you live in, what you share far exceeds your differences.

Your lizards and bats don't hold their "indigenous" nature against your Australian opossums and rabbits. Somehow they all get along. I'd say they have their priorities straight. I hope you achieve the balance the other lifeforms in your land have achieved.

As the land will still be there when we are all gone, enjoy every moment there and remember the love of it you share with your fellow "ghosts in the machine".

I look forward to my first visit. I'll be sure to bring gifts. :-)

Best Wishes,

xearther

xearther

LIVE IT!

UNDERSTAND IT!

ACCEPT IT!

BECAUSE IT WILL NEVER GO AWAY FOR TE AO MAAORI AS WELL AS THE "D.O.I"

TE TIRITI O WAITANGI

Interesting comments from "Hand of God". I think you better go home aye.

UT

UT - Who are you to tell any one to go home, "hand of god" had a valid experience.


Here is a new word for Maoridom - "RESPONSIBILITY"

Learn it

Live it



The comments on here blow my mind - One Caucasian shares an experience of Maori bullying, whilst another Maori responds on this board with more ........BULLYING.



Every smart, educated citizen who wants a safer life is going to move out of NZ and take their wealth with them, NZ will end up a third world country.


Look what happened in South Africa - They abolished apartheid, but the cost was white people were not allowed to have private residence - That meant they had to take down security fences.

Post apartheid Caucasian killings had risen 60%. Now most "family" oriented couples have left South Africa and why wouldn't you when your daughters have a one in 3 chance of being raped. Those are tough statistics when you have 3 daughters.


Mark my words - NZ is at a cross roads and if the violence escalates there will be a massive backlash one way or another.

Maxim

Thousands of people die every day, do you care for them maxim? Is that a "valid experience"? Tauiwi like you maxim have NO WAIRUA AT ALL!

UT

Are you speaking in non sequiturs because the logic train has left your station.


Again I'll reiterate - The safety of one's self and family is the paramount concern for any body.

ANYONE who threatens that sanctity is a terrorist - YES A TERRORIST.


Caucasians appear fed up and it seems their must be a reason for it. Maybe feeling unsafe isn't a good enough reason for you, but It's a fair bet that most people believe they are less safe and secure around people like you than people like ME.


I don't care what Maori's do, so long as they follow the law, but if they think they are above it, history proves that they majority will not accept their behaviour - Hence the overwhelming majority of comments on this site.


I don't believe the white populous of NZ to be racist, but I do think a lot of people are scared, angry and worried.

I wouldn't want my Grandmother walking in a predominantly Maori neighbourhood - is it because I'm racist - You be the judge? But don't say that you would not walk head first into a kkk meeting and say that it was because you don't have a white hood - It's just COMMON SENSE!


I don't no what wairua is, but rest assured that my character is nothing like yours and that is a good thing.

Maxim

This page has been going strong for over 4 and a half years now. I think that says a lot about how white New Zealand is feeling towards their Maori brethren.


I don't claim to have all the answers, but I do believe blame is for losers. White people blame Maori for crime, Maori blame White people for pretty much everything and the circle repeats itself.

I agree with a lot of the sentiment here, that speaks about Maori and how they need to take full responsibility and work harder, but I also think white NZ should drop the holier than thou hypocrisy - Everyone makes mistakes.

I will however, qualify this with a notion - If Maori don't stand up and start adhering to socially acceptable behaviour then of course the tolerance of Caucasian NZ will wane.

Maori - Take responsibility.

Caucasians - Judge not lest thee be judged yourselves.

Realist

We need to make amends and establish stronger relationships with eachother at all levels for all our benefits and for the generations to come, thats just what i think.

Kia-Ora

More so than anything, elders and parents in the Maori community need to instill a sense of pride and respect for the well being and property of others.

It seems pride in the antiquated rituals of Maori is abound in limitless supply, however the pressing need to treat others with kindness and a respectful manner is not so important. Perhaps because the Maori of the past placed little or no importance on the values that we currently hold to be dear.

This is probably because they "once were" a fighting, bickering and waring people, who lacked the skills needed to be diplomatic for the sake of peace. Very little has changed.

Those who live in the past a doomed to stay there and unfortunately Maoridom shows little regard for creating a peaceful and synergistic future with the forward thinking majority. How do you overcome this problem?


The answer lies in Maori deciding together that the most important thing for themselves is to change. White man will change when he sees Maori making genuine headway into a cultural paradigm shift, but until this is apparent - What is white man supposed to do?


Today is where the importance lies and all the looking at the past will not create the prosperous, happy and peaceful future that we all want. Only self responsible, thoughtful and intelligent actions will.

Prometheus

Your ignorance and lack of knowledge knows no bounds- broken promises, greed, rape, torture, murder and theft all at the hands of Pakeha in the past are not things you can just expect maori to forget nor forgive, AND THE THIEVING STILL CONTINUES TODAY FOR GODS SAKE!!

THE INJUSTICES OF THE PAST AND THE CONTINUING INJUSTICES HAPPENING TODAY WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN

UT

Greed, rape, torture, murder are the vestige of modern day Maori.


How long in the future should white Caucasians take to forgive Maori for their disgusting history?

Seriously, White people now are not responsible for the sins of their ancestors any more than my children have the right to sue you just because your grandfather was a criminal. That would be the ultimate in racism - Wouldn't it? Hmmn, I smell something wrong here.


There are no full blooded Maori's left, so instead of putting your hands out for undeserved reparation, why not take one dollar out of your left pocket and stick it in your right pocket. That'll solve everything.


How conflicting that most Maoris seeking government reparation also have a degree of WHITE blood.

Maybe the should be made to give the money back????????????????????


The cold hard facts of the matter is that Maori do not deserve anything and the Maori have no more to forgive than they do to be ashamed of (work that out), so if they pull up their socks and find a job and earn their own cash they can learn what true pride is.

Get real UT and get over it, your people have bestowed a larger criminal manifestation upon society than the white man, but you choose to blame, blame, blame because of the sweet cash - Eh bro?

Prometheus

UT - You need a reality check cuz. What injustices are you so revved up about eh? If you can't get over things that happened before you were born then the issue's yours my man.

Chill the **** out and get over it.


We are all sick of your ******* crap. And dont call me a pakeha either coz I'm a Caucasian - Got it?

freestyler

Injustices - What a joke!

UT - Get over yourself and move on mate.


I'm sooooo glad I moved to Australia. None of your whinging and bleating about who supposedly owes you what.

Get a job - get a life - get over it.

Sam

who cares if you mooved to austalia?

we dont want you here anyway.

Tawa Bro

Well, the election's over and the people have spoken!

Witness

I found this online - It made me sick
Nia Glassie was murder by 2 Maori scumbags

"She died in hospital 36 hours after she was kicked in the head by the Curtis brothers. By the time she reached medical care she was in a coma and was bleeding from the back of her eyes."


Just another typical day in NZ

Maori Are Scum

That's what the Pakeha done to us, among other inhumane things.

Pakeha Are Worse

Like What?

That's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard.

Pakeha stopped you from having a life expectancy of 17 years.

Pakeha stopped you from having to starve or kill others for land and food - You had plenty, but you did nothing but fight and bicker between you.

When did a pakeha ever do that to a 3 year old child?


What have pakeha ever done to you other than work hard to pay for for your f**ckin handouts.


Back in the day, there were a few thousand Maori's in the whole of the country and a few hundred pakeha. How many people could we have possibly hurt - Bugger all.

You know and I know more Maori's have abused, intimidated and stolen from white people than could ever have been in reverse.


You're the criminal minority, so get it right.

Get Real

Come On Get Real

Now that we have a full blown recession, will Maoris do their bit for the economy or will crime rise even more?

Sam

"Maori in Taranaki contribute around $459 million every year to regional GDP....... Maori asset base in Taranaki is almost $768 million".

surfer

Come on now, get real! You really believe pakeha have not attacked their 3 year olds, well I beg to differ, cause they do and why don't we hear it, cause the scum bags have money, money that can cover it all up. Yes thats right, these kids of pakeha that are beaten end up in places that are right under our noses, getting looked after by people like my sister in law, so yeah get that right!!!

Give Maori what is rightfully theirs. The people on here who make these false claims, get yourself knowledge as to why Maori are the way they are. Indigenous peoples throughout the world have and are experiencing the same as Maori, the same racist remarks.

I'm not saying that I condone the criminal activities cause I don't, we are Maori and we are good people, we work and pay our taxes, but we all get lumped in the same boat.

Ask yourselves this, who was it that made one of the stupidist act of all times, "1909 act Maori woman are forbidden to breatfeed their babies." That act came under the "Maori Health Act"

1918
Maori returned servicemen ineligible for the armed forces Rehabilitation Scheme.
The scheme was only available to Pakeha. Why? Maori fort in the same war...

1887
• Native Land Act
Bastion Point appropriated for ‘defence’ purposes. Thank goodness Maori voiced their opinions here and now own one of prime pieces of real estate in Auckland.

There are heaps of these stupid acts, a lot of acts were made just so the land could be stolen.

You want your answers as to why Maori are in the position they are today, look back on this countries history once pakeha came in here and you will see.

Ann

Ann

Hey Sam you move to Aussie where more indeginous people have had their country stolen from them too, and they are whinging too, your just not listening, wake up Sam!!!

Ann

Hi Ann, I agree partly with your comments, people are all too quick too lump everyone in the same boat. But you must acknowledge there is a problem, the statistics don't lie, this problem starts in the home. It is time for Maori to start taking some responsibilities for the problems their people face and deal with it at the grassroots level, this whole Nia Glassie incident is proof the community has fallen apart completely. Sort yourselves out. Take ownership of the problem and start to deal with it instead of concentrating on blaming others. We know there were wrongs done in the past and no one is disputing this, But I'm sure most if not all Maori out there today have some european blood in them, so you might as well takt 5 bucks out of your left pocket and put it in your right, as you are to blame as much as myself a third generation NZ'er whose ancestors were never here when the treaty was blamed, yet I get lumped in the Pakeha group!!?? Why is this Ann?

Kees

Simply because you(kees) are 'TAUIWI', sort of like Pakehas but yous came off the boat abit later down the track. Because you are tauiwi kees, you have NO PLACE talking about any affairs relating to Maori ie. DOI & TOW. You also love pulling out the 'stats card' when you clearly fail to acknowelege the Events,Acts,Legislation and 'Dark Dirty Deeds' that were forced or otherwise upon Maori people and the "negative impacts" it had and still continues to have on Maoridom today...seems you backed yourself into a little corner replying to Ann's simple response above about the 'dark & shameful' days of the pakeha govt when the intent of Pakeha law was to 'oppress', 'get rid of' and 'destroy' MAORI AND ALL THINGS MAORI off the face of the earth yet i wouldn't expect you to know at all because you are either plain ignorant or just dumb and don't wanna know. You forgot to mention that Pakeha also have a considerably high proportion of "child molestation", but we dont want to hear about that aye kees?.

pfft

Typical Maori response


Everything is somebody else's fault

Enlightened

That all you got bro!?

what a joke!!

pfft

Well pfft, who's fault is it - Do you understand the axiom of responsibility or is the concept foreign?


The majority is NOT repsonsible for babysitting!


It's like arguing that race is perpendicular?????



Are white people overseas to be held accountable for anything that a white person may have done to a Maori 300 years ago, or better yet should it just be WHITE people in NZ.


What about the white people who aren't related to the early fleets - Are they responsible for the acts of their RACE

IF so that is racism in the biggest most biggotted form.

Enlightened

What part of Ann's comments do you "partly" agree with Kees? Judging from your previous and recent comments, it is obvious that your mindset is blatantly ignorant and dumb. Responsibility? Please refrain from even using that term of reference in relation to what you think Maori should or shuldn't do.
Due to obvious past injustices forced upon Maori, (which are continuing today) Pakeha have always had the upper hand. A clear process of oppression and assimilation? Yes indeed! Pakeha mainstream media love to focus and zoom-in on cases such as that of Nia Glassie, another great opportunity to once again tarnish and emphasise the typical labels and stereotypes that Pakeha have created. How else would Pakeha be able to portray and project a fascade or Righteousness & Purity that usually puts them on a pedestal of civil heirachy?? If anybody is to accept responsibility, then Pakeha should be the first to do so. But hmmmm where to start? the list is endless, I suggest you scurry along and start this PRONTO! It is frustrating, yet humorous to hear idiots like "come on get real" commenting about all of the wonderful and great things Pakeha have done for the Maori people; life expectancy increase?? If anything, it was the Pakeha who had a major impact in the DECREASE in life expectancy! Disease and epidemic followed Pakeha from their filty motherland to our shores, so how about you COME ON GET REAL & GET RIGHT!! And as for 'playing innocent' to misdeeds bestowed upon 3yearolds, OMG another reflection of utter ignorance! Ann, I strongly agree with you, Pakeha have always swindelled their way out of or covered up their wrong doings with money..Money, Greed and Pakeha definately are lumped in the same boat, their whole existence and meaning of life revolves around the concept of money. Kees for example, using monetary terms to attempt to justify his pathetic view..How about I take 5 bucks from out of your left and right pocket Kees, pillage my way through your town, take all of your peoples money aswell..,ohh wait, I THINK I'LL JUST TAKE EVERYTHING!! ..Typical Pakeha ideology

maori gurl

I absolutely agree with you Maori gurl

"1909 act Maori women are forbidden to breastfeed their babies." That act came under the "Maori Health Act"

Let's be clear about this- this law applied to MAORI WOMEN ONLY AND NOT PAKEHA WOMEN.I often wonder if that law is still in force today????


kees:
I acknowledge that maori are dominant in 'crime' stats but 'sexual offences' stats tells a different story. Statistics NZ(sex offences)- between the years 98-08 Pakeha males abducted women for sex more than any other ethnicity in NZ, in the same years Pakeha males raped children under the age of 12yrs more than any other ethnicity in NZ. Now why wasn't this blurted all over the mainstream media?? Its all to bloody 'one sided' to me. Like you said it all 'starts in the home'and for Pakeha people to take responsibility for the problems their people face at 'grassroots level'. Maybe you need to share that advice with those Pakeha Sexual Predators.

Enlightened:
you're just not listening, Wake up idiot!!

pfft

Pfft - Idiot huh?



You're right - It's all the Caucasian's fault.


Maori are in no way responsible for their OWN ACTIONS - everything they do is the responsibility of the way Caucasians have treated them.


Of cause everything good Maoris do must also be due to the environmental "cause and effect" from Caucasians.


So which is it? Are Maori good, with a benevolent effect on society or not?



If so who is responsible for that.


WAKE up and listen to yourself.


It must be society's fault for everything.

Enlightened

"Ka whawhai tonu maatou ake ake."

"We will fight on forever."


And this forum proves it!

Manu

It's fitting that one of the world's most violent cultures should "fight" on forever.


Maori don't want peace, they want land and money.


If the land was valueless the debate would be moot

Enlightened

Dude take a chill pill!

If you noticed it wasn't something i said, but quoted from the battle of Orakau, i assumed you knew?


NZ situation today have demonstrated that Maori have been fighting(non violent) for years through the Court system, going through proccesses set up by the Govt/Crown etc only to get really a 'drop in the bucket' of what was wronglfully taken from Maori in the first place.

Do you know why the govt pays these amounts of $$$ in Settlements??

One reason is because they can't give 'all' land back that was wrongfully taken from maori.


Dude if your jealous of Maori or a Maori hater, that's not my problem.

You know.. im friends with alot of pakeha they're all good fullas and hard workers and they don't get offended when i call them 'pakeha'. I came to this site on accident the first time and if they saw this man, they'd be so shocked at some of these posts on here from some people. Im not a racist, i dislike some maori and some pakeha too but hey, im just human.


I hope that the day will come when Maori and non-Maori truly live in peace together in Aotearoa/New Zealand this beautiful Country of ours.

Manu

Well well, looks like I touched on a bit of a nerve here. So many vitriolic replies and all seem to miss the point of what I was trying to say, I acknowledge there were many wrongs in the past such as land theft, which many poeple don't know about, they think that Maori sold off all there land for a few mucksets and wonder why they come back complaining about it years later, when this is simply not the case. So I am not a complete ignnoramus. All I am saying is don't you think it is a bit rich trying to lay blame exclusively on WHITE people, when in actual fact many many many maori people out there are of mixed race themselves and contain this poisonous "WHITE MANS BLOOD" . do you see what I'm trying to get at here!? You cannot blame "White" people today, as the cause for all the problems with Maori, as by doing this you are effectively blaming yourselves as well, as these are your descendants too believe it or not, and to Pfft, who calls me TAUIWI, and saying I have no place in any discussion? As a New Zealand Citizen and taxpayer I think I am entitled to a place in where my taxes go as well as the right to vote for the government I want, so get off your high horse mate.
I am sick and tired of handouts, how much of these multimillion dollar "settlements" actually get to the average Maori and help them out? Note I jokingly say "settlements" because you and I both know these issues are far from settled and ten years down the track the tribes will be there with thier hands out again, money is not the answer!!!! When will people understand that.

Kees

Give it up Tauiwi your wrong again, I don't have a drop of Pakeha in me and guess what? many many many Maori don't either(you didnt know that aye?). The fact is if Pakeha(Crown/Govt/race generally & certain individuals) had simply stuck to the TOW, Maori wouldn't be trying to fight for justice today to try and file a grievance by fufilling the 'Crowns' criteria. We now know that Pakeha never intended this of course and here we are today. It's obvious your lack of knowledge on this country's history because then you would realise this is a 'generational cycle' mixed in with the same old racist attitudes and typical stereo-typing of Maori.

You didn't clarify what comments you 'partly' agreed with with Ann's & maori gurl's response and mine in relation 'stats'?

As i said before, Tauiwi are people like you kees. You said yourself your a 3rd generation NZ and your ancestors wern't here when the TOW was 'blamed' which makes you ignorant, dumb and an immigrant. The more people like you that dont have a say in our affairs, the better off for everyone so work hard, pay your taxes and let Pakeha sort out the big mess that Pakeha created.

pfft

TAUTOKO!...TAUTOKO!

Hey pfft that's abit deep bro, your passionate to say the least lol!

In saying that I also think some people seriously need to become more educated and informed(if they choose) about the history that helped shape Aotearoa today.

kawa

It's unfortunate when either side picks and chooses the history with which they use to make their points.

In the end - The here and now are what counts. Values in modern day New Zealand have been shaped by all races over the last couple of hundred years.

The only way in which any one can move forward is to accept that each individual is purely responsible for their own actions and not those of others.

No white person should be held responsible for the "sins of their fathers" and no mixed blooded races should be either.

History wont prevent the future from happening, so intelligent, rational actions based around common sense compromise are needed.


The question of reparation bring about a whole new debate - Should every person wronged by another person due to crime be able to sue for reparation....

Boy, that'd open Pandora's box, but it's either a solid yes or a collective NO.

Everyone sues for justice both past and present.


Who's up for fairness?

Meditate

Ha ha ha!


So if Maori want to sue for the things that have happened in the past then I can sue every Maori for the bro who beat me up in the pub or the cuz who stole my car.


I love it.

We can sue all the Maoris for the behaviour of their peers.


Then we'd have some serious REPARATIONS


You want your land back and I want My TAX dollars back.


Sounds even bro!

Realist

HAHAHA Thats a good one bro!! Give back our 5 million acres of land that was stolen from us and we'll give back your measley 50 million dollars. The fact is is that Pakeha started this big mess were in today and unfortunately past govt's simply decided to ignore this until only recently when they learnt that Maori wern't gonna roll over and play dead.

As you are aware Maori can only lodge a grievance(s) against injustices in breach of the so-called 'principles' of Te Tiriti O Waitangi against the 'Pakeha/Crown/Govt' NOT INDIVIDUALS.


About time the controversial Foreshore & Seabed Legislation is repealed. It's funny how the govt emphasises "Public access" to beaches yet they fail to emphasise "Public access" to beaches owned by farmers and multi-millionaires in 'Private ownership'??. It's clear the current Legislation is unfair, unjust and outright discriminatory towards Maori, only Maori.

It's sad to say that the thieving of resources IS still happening TODAY.

pfft

I partially agree with pfft on the private ownership of beach front debacle, but property ownership is the greyest of grey areas.


The fact remains that when it comes time to sue - Every person in the country has a case...black, white or purple.


Truly I am not racist - I couldn't give a toss about skin colour and I have Maori, Samoan and many other races in my family - It doesn't make me like a race more or less.

White people, frankly have a lot to answer for, but so do all races.


My major concern is that regardless of who owns what, is the justice some people seek for financial gain or pride.


Would you trade LAND for an official APOLOGY.

Too many people have flexible morals and misguided ideology. Surely skeptics can be forgiven.


As it stands right now, Maori have the exact same rights as any Caucasian in NZ, except they have added benefits such as scholarships, fishing etc..

The playing field is pretty level in the eyes of your average white taxpayer struggling to put food on the table in what is little better than a third world country. Every cent they pay in tax that goes to someone no more or less priviledged than themselves is considered a slap in the face.

This perpetuates racism and is unfortunate, but the here and NOW is all that counts to them not what happened 200 years ago by what may or may not be their relatives.


MY POINT


Is it purely up to Caucasians to make reparations on behalf of other Caucasians that they may have no relation to?

No side will see the other's point of view on this case and the circle will continue to turn.


I do not have a problem with Maori trying to claim what is rightfully theirs, but just consider who is paying you and whether their children deserve to bear these debts.


It all boils down to ownership.


Did Maori own the land that they NEVER set foot on. Remember Maori are not native to NZ and by definition are not native.

Therefor they do not under international law inherit land or inherently own that which they can not prove they had ownership of.

Such an emotional debate about something that people had no value for or use of, yet now bears value and therefor intrinsic value added to the equation.


There are definitely two sides to this argument and the side with more emotion, anger and voracity doesn't guarantee righteous benefaction.


This debate will not go away!

Meditate

You missed the train AGAIN!!

pfft

The train?

It seems entirely subjective and to quite honest I think my open minded reasoning is pretty on the mark.

Does it help if I say that I'm white?

How about the fact that my grandfather is Maori and I have Maori blood, about 1/32 to be specific.

Does that put me on the train or is my Caucasian dominant ethnicity the PROBLEM, because racism has MANY, MANY ugly heads. Not the least being inclusion or in this case racially based exclusion.


At school I learned Maori. At home we largely ignored anything Maori.

Once and a while I'd visit a Marai with a MORE-MAORI-THAN-ME relative. ( Though when I get a tan, I can stake a larger claim in my perceivable Maoridom!) The Darker Maori where always more judgemental of the lighter ones and I have relatives far whiter than me who actually have far more Maori in them than I do. One thing a lot of us could agree on is that because we weren't "black" enough - We weren't particularly welcome.


That set things straight for me.


All the lines are blurred and trying to establish who is more Maori than the next guy based on ethnicity, bloodlines or intensity of practice is akin to the trials of Nazi Germany.

Point >>> Who deserves what?

Who is fighting who?

Can a darker, more ethnic Maori be entitled to more of the cut when the lawsuit is won and the dust settles?


These are the questions that get overlooked in the greed-disguised-as-pride arguments.



I am not being purposefully provocative - These are very real questions to me.


Train ticket please?

Meditate

HAHAHA!! You really are a joke!!

And tell me, what "Marai" do you come from?

pfft

So, I am a joke am I?

I don't come from a Marai, I thought that would be pretty clear in what I've written.

I was being completely honest in my experiences which are apparently a joke, but like most unintelligent people you fail to rebut anything I've said, but instead dish out insults.

You are pitiful, pathetic and weak minded.

You think the world owes you because of you race, that is indignant, arrogant, racist and lazy.

More?

You fail repeatedly to back up any of your weak points in the face of overwhelming arguments, so you utter monosyllabic answers and stay clear of the whole "reason with logic" that those evolved members of society do.

It's been twenty years since I've been near a Marai and I'm not culturally devoid, malcontent or missing out on anything.

Fact is that some of the darker Maori in my family are considered "real" Maori, while others with the exact same amount of genetic Maoridom (but are whiter, are not considered Maori.

THIS IS RACISM

Any judgment and I mean ANY, based on the color of ones skin is racism.


I am wealthy, healthy and extremely happy and I achieved what I have without handouts.

The "typical" Maori mindset robs it's own people of the self responsibility to take control of their lives.

Blame is for LOSERS

Success is for winners.


This is why Caucasians outflank Maoris in NZ by overwhelming proportions. Not predetermination or status.

pfft - You are a weak joke at best. You are unimportant and amount to nothing and the only fight you have is for that which you never earned.

WE INVENTED THE TRAIN!

Meditate

Okay take a breath and calm down!!

It is not "blood percentages" and/or "how much Maori" you are based on skin colour that determines your culture, it is the VALUES THAT ONE FEELS MORE STRONGLY TOWARDS.


"The Darker Maori where always more judgemental of the lighter ones and I have relatives far whiter than me who actually have far more Maori in them than I do."

Clearly you've never been in a scenario in reverse where "The Whiter Maori" were more jugemental and the "Darker Maori" were shoved to the side because they were "MORE MAORI" than the darker ones?? because this can happen too but again, to me, it's not about blood percentages and how much "MORE MAORI" you are based on skin colour, so please don't paint us all with your same brush.


"I don't come from a Marai"

So your Maori, you don't know where your "Marai" is, you learnt Maori at school, and you don't even know how to spell Marae correctly?? or better yet do you even want to know your Marae??

BRO!!

You should make an effort to "re-ignite" your home fires, for you are Ahi Matao(your homefires are out)...I mean seriously, 20 years is a long time considering you've even been near a Marae not to mention your own Marae and it is really sad to say, but you are missng out.

It's obvious what values YOU feel strongly towards.

As I said before, you really are a joke.

pfft

The Foreshore and Seabed Legislation would unearth a much more healthier debate I think.

M

Dear Meditate,
Thank you for your thoughful and insightful comments. I feel you hit the nail on the head with what you have said. I have been trying, far less eloquently though:) to put across many of the same points here.
It is a shame Pfft, that you resort to foolish one liner comments and just try to insult people to retain your self appointed place on your pedestal.
I understand these are very emotional issues to you, as they are to many people living in this country that actually care what happens to other people in the communities around them, so please stop trying to feel superior by spouting a few Maori words, jumping up and down on someones spelling mistakes, and take the time to try to see the point people are trying to get and open up some meaningful debate. I believe most of the people who commented here have valid points worth at least listening to. And to completely shut people down with insults and crass one liners is ignorant and brutish. A little common courtesy never went astray.

Kees

Some people hate hearing the truth.

In the end, everyone has their own opinion.

END OF STORY

pfft

Yep! Im for the Foreshore & Seabed debate!

Anyone else?? or will someone change the subject again?

pfft

Holy????

CASTAWAY

Hi again all its been awhile. I just want to reply to Kees on his or hers last comments. Kees just take yourself back abit on earlier comments made by these learned Maori people, Suveryn, Andrea and Melany to name a few, your answers to the way a lot of Maori are today will unfold.

I feel so proud when I see how these ppl and others write, that I feel what that say is exactly how I feel, and I feel the humour and sarcasm that us Maoris are renowned for, kobi felt it was anger???

It's like 2am or something and I'm dog tired, but TAUTOKO, TAUTOKO TO MY MAORI COMRADES!

KIA KAHA

GET URSELF SUM KNOWLEDGE, GET AND READ THE DOI!!!!

Ann

DOI rocks!!!

Ann

I found this to be very intereting, found it on the net and it is to do with "The Maori Financial Position today"



The Trustees of the worlds biggest Bank are Prince Andrew of England and King Juan
Carlos and Queen Sophia of Spain.
In 1844 Queen Victoria set up an Account whereby the NZ Government would pay taxes
to the Queen for the right to occupy NZ. Because they could not afford to pay the taxes
Governor Fitzroy waived the pre-emption clause to raise funds by selling land on the
open market in breach of Article 3 of the Treaty of Waitangi.
This account was known as the Akaroa Bank. The Queen deposits funds paid to her by
the NZ Settlers Government for the right of occupation.
Governor Fitzroy overspent the fund so he was removed from office.
The NZ Settlers Government still pay taxes to the British Crown which are deposited in
the London Branch of the BNZ before being transferred to the Akaroa Bank.
The interest was transferred to the New Zealand Reserve Bank, however the Settler
Government was using the fund without authority so the Queen closed the account and
only the interest goes to the Reserve Bank which is now the Akaroa Bank and under the
control of the Business Roundtable that is, until Maori take back control of their own
affairs by creating their own Government.
9
The Putea can only be accessed through a combination of 4 numbers held by 4 different
people and known only to themselves. The first 3 numbers are here in NZ. A form of
chain reaction must take place before the number combinations can be activated. Many
organisations in their greed have tried to access the Putea without success it can only
happen under the conditions set by the Declaration of Independence 1835. In other words
only Maori Incorporations have the right to access it and only when all 10 Waka have
been filled.
Lease monies paid to the Crown on behalf of the other 74 Commonwealth countries are
also deposited into the fund.
Since 1852 the NZ Settlers Parliament have also had to pay rent and taxes to the British
Crown. This money is collected and deposited on behalf of Maori. The interest is paid
into the Akaroa Bank and the principal into a Trust Fund administered by the Trustees.
The principal sum is held in the United Nations and it is from this fund that the World
Bank and the IMF borrow.
The interest is administered by the Reserve Bank of New Zealand and used by the NZ
Government to support this countries infrastructure. It is Maori money that supports the
NZ Economy.
NB. The Putea is said to be worth approx 20 trillion dollars US.
Before the Putea can be released Maori need to be a fully functioning entity under the
mechanism set up under Te Ture ie. To be incorporated and readily identifiable entities to the British Crown.

Ann.....Tangata Whenua.....Maori and Proud

oops, interesting is what I meant, geez dum maori is me, better get it right huh?

Ann.....Tangata Whenua.....Maori and Proud

Are you kidding me?

Go and do a little further research!


You are retarded. You have used one incomplete side of a conspiracy theory and tried to pony it up as fact.

What's worse is that you have used figures that are so far off base that you must clearly be insane.

What you do base your facts on?

This is not a fact, but an folklore/opinion and the money makes you want to believe it even more.


I have studied this extensively and you are not only incorrect, but I assume you know this and are flat out lying.



Ann, you are an idiot!

WOW

Kia Ora Ann for your interesting comment!


WOW, Why do you counter Ann's comment by claiming it's not facts?

Are you claiming that the many Laws & Acts and govt behaviour generally mentioned in Ann's source which deprived Maori of their lands, culture, language etc is not facts?

If you have "studied this extensively" what "facts" can you offer on this matter?

pfft

I'm actually a tribunal lawyer and I argue pro-Maori against the crown.

Statements like Ann's make my job even more difficult because it contributes ignorance towards the positive headway we are making in finding justice for the Maori of this country.

There are many retributions to be sought, but we must have facts in hand that have a solid foundation.


I could claim anything and then ask you to prove me otherwise. We can make large steps if we work together, but if we argue among ourselves then what hope do we have.

I will give you some really great links and then you can see who I am and where I am coming from, as well as what we can achieve if we are cooperative and sensible.

I was only anti-Ann's statements, not anti Maori.

It's just that things like that make my job that much harder to do.

WOW

Is that right? and pig's fly don't they?

How professional of you by calling Ann such names.

So where are these links you talk about?

pfft

Probably a board troll - I suspect there are a few with multiple account names eh? pfft


I personally respect peoples passion, but passion and emotional bias are responsible for some of the most heinous of outcomes. As such claims, fact figures and all the proof in the world, often do little to sway the minds of those with vested interests.


The fact remains this is all about land and what Maori PERCEIVE to be stolen land correct?


This perception belies a couple of immediate assumptions:


1. Maori absolutely, fundamentally had ownership of said land and have such proof that is beyond and shadow of doubt


2. All treaties were signed and as such was thus signed by dignitaries representative of both parties with question.




Anything you can think off that might render such assumptions highly expectational?


How about a third raiser?

3. Maoris are natives and as such have automatic and unwavering rights to land that they can claim now they owned, yet may never actually have known or seen in times hence.


How about a forth?

4. The united nations definition of native merely means those that were born of a country, REGARDLESS of blood type, creed or parental nationality.


We can go on and on and on, but the first hurdle is were Maori arguments will consistently fail:



INITIAL OWNERSHIP OF LAND!


You'll never get it, because it's NOT YOURS and you can't prove it is, so why don't YOU go back to Polynesia where you came from instead of insisting Caucasians do as such.


You won't win because you can't win and that's the way it will always be!


Tough Cookies


And I know exactly which "Marae" I visited and it sure as heck didn't feel like mine hence I feel little sorrow for the so called plight of my "brethren" and check your English "pfft" before you correct my Maori.


Thanks Kees, nobody has to feel like NZ isn't there Country because of the colour of their skin.



Thanks

Meditate

Must I repeat again, People just HATE hearing the TRUTH!!

I understand how much the TRUTH hurts, but you must acknowledge the obvious and if not, thats your choice.

Everyone has their own opinion no matter how much undeniable facts their are.

And yes even TODAY the thieving still continues.

pfft

For the first time, I completely agree with you - People hate the truth and the thieving continues.

Meditate

Thank god!

I thank you for overcoming the first major hurdle of 'acknowledgement' that the undeniable facts & injustices still continue to deprive Maori today ie. Foreshore & Seabed Act.


Kia Ora

pfft

Abstract:

- Note that through the Bill the Crown does not take ownership of any existing property rights to the foreshore and seabed recognised by the Crown (e.g much of the Viaduct and Gulf Harbour marinas). The *only* property the Crown assumes control of is land customarily owned by Maori which could in the future be recognised as freehold property. It is, clearly, a racist law. Maori are the only people affected by it.

- As Peace Movement Aotearoa and others have observed, the proposed bill is a breach of human rights that state that all people should have a right to due process through their country's court system. Leon Penney points out that this happens through two fronts: "Firstly, the Crown fought Maori through the court process and when it lost in the Court of Appeal it has decided to introduce legislation to overrule the Court decision. Secondly, the Bill denies Maori the ability to use the accepted court process to gain title. This has been described by one retired Maori land Court Judge as similar to what has happened in Zimbabwe."

- The Waitangi Tribunal, the commission established to make recommendations on claims relating to the Treaty of Waitangi, found the Bill in direct contravention of Articles Two and Three of the Treaty of Waitangi [1840]. The Bill also disadvantages property rights of coastal Maori compared to other property rights holders, including other tribes (for example, Maori ownership of some lakebeds has been recognised by the Crown). The Tribunal's first recommendation is that the Government sit down with Maori and properly explore the options which are genuinely available, which the Government has not been prepared to do yet. The Tribunal thought that the Crown's principles could be achieved in a Treaty-compliant regime. "Maori are realistic," said the Tribunal. The Tribunal's next recommendation was that the Crown do nothing. There is no need for this Bill.

- The Government has described the Tribunal's report "dependent upon dubious or incorrect assumptions" and has failed to make any significant acknowledgment of the Tribunal's findings. The Government continues to paint any opposition to the Bill as "radical". This should be seen as surprising given the Tribunal's unparalleled legal expertise, and the equal representation from Maori and Pakeha in the Tribunal's distinguished membership. The Tribunal's report (particularly the conclusion and recommendations) describes the situation in clear English with a minimum of legalese and should be read by everyone seeking to understand the issues.

- The Bill does not rule out court action by Maori to establish customary rights. But if that action is successful, Maori are not left with ownership but with "entitlement to some form of redress". If they prove an ancestral connection to an area of foreshore and seabed, they can gain "increased participation in management of that area." Pretty vague isn't it? Think about how you'd feel if it was your beach house that was being taken.

- As many claimants to the Tribunal made clear, the public has little to fear from allowing Maori ownership of parts of the foreshore and seabed to be established through the courts. Not only is the area of coastline affected relatively small (particularly compared to the coastline the public are currently excluded from), but level of public access is unlikely to change (think of Lake Taupo, owned by Ngati Tuwharetoa). The Crown's track record in maintaining assets in the public interest, however, should give some cause for concern (think of Telecom).

- Opposition to the Bill comes not only from Maori or the Left. Even Roger Kerr, executive director of the Business Roundtable, said that private rights to the foreshore and seabed need to be upheld, and "this includes legitimate Maori customary rights to title." On the one hand the Government is attempting to facilitate Maori development, while on the other it is taking significant resources which may by rights belong to Maori and are of great spiritual, social and economic importance to them.

- The Bill should be of concern to all New Zealanders. The implications of the Bill are larger than "race relations" and reach to the very basis of our democracy. The effects will be with us for a long time. While those disadvantaged by the Bill are Maori, the Bill highlights the Government's willingness to overturn established common law rights to get what it wants. It also shows the Government's unwillingness to listen to either those disadvantaged by its policies, or reputable expert opinion.

pfft

All the blah, blah, blah in the world doesn't make a difference.


Maori don't deserve a penny, because the land wasn't theirs. They stole, raped, enslaved (yes enslaved their own kind), ate and committed genocide on their own people.

They don't deserve the land anymore than Nazis deserve the Jewish gold, they stole and killed for.


pfft is looking at it from the typical Maori point of view, that they were tree hugging peace fairies from the land of love and puha until the evil white man came and forced them to sign a treatise that they didn't want to.

Then the evil white man stole their land and never gave them anything in return.



If it's your land who did you legally purchase it from?


Or did you kill to acquire it?


The history of Maori is the most vile, disgusting, canabalistic, lazy, immoral, dirty, aggressive, destructive and cancerous of all mankind.


1. They aren't natives of NZ

2. They therefor have no ownership over the land

3. They killed to acquire what land they have


And you wonder why the hard working taxpaying white man doesn't want to give Maori a red cent?

Go figure, perhaps it's because from their point of view you just don't seem to deserve it huh?


Get your heads out of the sand and get jobs.

Pakeha have payed for the land a million times over in taxes, grants and repairs for the destruction wrecked by Maori.

The amount of money NZ pays to such a minority is ridiculous.


Want some money - Go and F#@king earn it!

Whatever

Yet another example of a typical pakeha who hates the truth.

pfft

What the truth that Maoris are unemployed?

Great comeback pfft

Whatever

Comeback?

Do you have a better "comeback" on the Foreshore & Seabed debate at hand, instead of deterring from the subject?

I bet not.

Why?

Because it's the TRUTH!


What will your pathetic comeback be now?

pfft

NO comeback - You don't own the Foreshore & Seabed, so we don't care or bother to argue it.

There is no argument

Get a job!

Whatever

Haha! Just as I thought, what a joke!

That's right NO COMEBACK!

Accept the truth!

pfft

I accept the truth - That Maoris are cannibals who raped, killed and enslaved their own people.

You own nothing - That's the truth.

Get a job!

Look up job in the dictionary.

The only argument is who is going to get off their lazy asses and find work instead of bludging off hard working taxpayers.



Don't let all the land rights hoopla distract Maoridom from working to pay their share.

Who's arguing that?

Whatever

Agian off subject but expected!

Let remind YOU what you already know about Pakeha and what they done to our people.
PAKEHA:
-Murdered
-Enslaved
-Raped
-Tortured
-Stole

All these things Pakeha are responsible for for the almost obliteration of the Tangata Whenua.

If you think the 'dark deeds' of Pakeha done to Maori are forgotten and never heard of, you are deeply mistaken. One of these dark deeds still heard today is when after pakeha would kill the men and children, they occupied the village site and grabbed the women they could after chasing them down. Following the rape and murder, the maori women would then have their 'vaginas' cut out from them, dried out and turned into 'bullet pouches' they would then use to help slaughter countless more maori.

Another dirty deed was when pakeha in the Taranaki region would ride around on their high horses and cut off the heads of innocent maori children playing, with their swords for simply 'a game'.

Another is out of Kihikihi, by Hairini hall, pakehas locked kaumatua, kuia and children in the church and burnt them alive.

Those mentioned above are only 3 events out of countless others that took place and that pain is very much still felt today, and YOU even have the audacity to say that maori done this & that?! How ignorant!


You seem to think that "Pakehas" are the only ones who pay taxes which is quiet wrong when Maori in Taranaki alone conrtribute $459 million a year to regional GDP.

2008:
Of the total Maori contribution to GDP, agriculture accounted for $417m, fishing $135m, forestry $23m, property investing $690m, education $333m, health $212m, cultural and recreational services $49m and other production $704m.

And Individually, I like many other hard working maori pay my taxes like everyone else, even Pakehas.

Im happy to say to 'whatever' who tells me to get a job, that no longer am I in the 'rat race' like him or her. The success of financial freedom I reap today was through pure 'hard work' unlike you.

YOU get a job you worthless ignorant fool!

pfft

3 card trick wins again!

You completely have succumbed to my point!


Yes, Maori and Caucasians are both guilty of horrendous behaviours, both now and in the past.

The things is....


None of us are responsible for the deeds of our ancestors.

Unless of course you think we are.

If so....then get prepared to pay up.

Whatever

It seems that pfft, You are the fool, but then again, we can all see that from what you write, not the names you call and the one line rhetoric, you seem to spill.

Whatever

The only one missing the point is YOU.

WE ARE NOT AND WILL NEVER BE "ONE PEOPLE"!

But then you already knew this.

pfft

Yes, we're not one people, because you think you're above the law.

There's no point to miss.

Whatever

"because you think you're above the law"

Is that right?? well, any look at the Foreshore&Seabed Act will tell you who is exactly "below" the law.

pfft

God these bros are living in the past - Get on with your lives

Sam

I would like to look to the future, with high employment rates and affordable land, but we all know what it's going to take to get that ball rollin'

Whatever

That's the problem the Foreshore&Seabed Act is not old at all. This law is "legislative theft" that amounted to further confiscation of 2053km of coastline previously under Maori ownership.

This unfair, racist and discriminatory law should be repealed IMMEDIATELY!

We all know this isn't that right whatever? or do you think otherwise?

pfft

Yea whateva you dum fools, if i eva see any of youse in the pub, its a lion red big bot on your hed, dummy. Pfft youre my bro,ay bay.

Hori

All these bloody 'handouts' and 'special rights' the maoris get from the Government has got stop NOW!

STOP the handouts of hundreds of millions of our taxpayers money.

STOP all the 'special rights/treatment' that maoris get and for ALL People to be EQUAL before the Law like the rest of NZers.

STOP all this rubbish with the 'treaty grievance industry' and division in this country based on no more than a historical piece of paper with NO signicance in this day and age.

AND FINALLY..

GET RID OF THE MAORI PARTY!! NO PARTY SHOULD BE BASED ON RACE!! IMAGINE IF I STARTED UP A "PAKEHA PARTY".

Mike

Just thought I would attempt to add some intelligence;

Race; noun. A destructive social construction that, since the mapping of the human genome, has been proven many times to have no genetic basis. ie differently coloured skin is no indication of the rest of an individuals genetics; there are more genetic similarities between individuals in different 'race' categories thanbetween individuals in the same 'race' category.
Therefore, accrding to this scientific fact, there can be no genetic basis for differences between behaviour of individuals of different coloured skin.

Ethnicity: noun. A concept acccounting for differences between different groups of people. It takes into account the culture of a group of individuals as handed down to them from their ancestors.

A Short Portion of Early New Zealand History:
Maori arrived & Moriori (a subtribe of Maori,not previous inhabitants) massacred
The first Maori to arrive in the South Island, Waiponamu, were the Waitaha.
16th Century the Kati Mamoe arrived
18th Century Ngai Tahu arrived
The first sealers arrive…
1642 Tasman arrived
1769 Cook arrived
French arrived
Initially the French and Americans were interested in forming close relations with New Zealand, but…
1840 The Treaty of Waitangi is signed by Maori and British

Around this time the first settlers were the underpriveledged, uneducated, morally crude dregs of British society. E. G. Wakefield, who had set up the New Zealand Company to import settlers, was a wanted criminal in Britain.
The Maori, in contrast, quickly began to combine the benifits of Maori culture and European culture and began to accumulate education, wealth anad power. Their main income stemmed from agriculture and business.
"In 1857 the Bay of Plenty, Taupo and Rotorua tribes numbering about 8000 people had dseveral thousand acres in wheat, potatoes, maize and kumara. They owned nearly 1000 horses, 200 head of cattle, 5000 pigs, 4 water-powered mills and 96 ploughs. On top of this they owned 43 coastal vessls of around 20 tons each and more than 900 canoes. The scale of Maori trading can be gauged fromthe example of one tribe Ngati Porou of the East Coast. in 1857, Pakeha Traders paid them £13,000 for 46,000 bushels of wheat......The tribes around Auckland supplied the town with nearly all its requirements of fruit, pumpkins, maize, potatoes, kumara and pigs, as well as most of the fish for the town.
This Maori enterprise was so successful that it could, ultimately, only be defeated by war, defeat, and the imposition of Pakeha institutional structures."
-excerpt from Puao Te Ata Tu, 1971
Statistics from this era put Pakeha in the place Maoridom is today, with high crime rates, low education, low life expectancy.
Therefore, we can draw the conclusion from this evidence that the behaviour that is held to characterise Maori today has everything to do with the socoi-economic bracket the majority is in, and nothing to do with any aspect of Maori genetics ('race')or culture (ethnicity), so in order to improve Maori statistics, poverty needs to be adressed

My information was taken from readings and lectures provided by the University of Canterbury. Please note this piece is factual, not an opinionated rant, so if you wish to disagree please do some reseach first so you have some evidence to back up your opinion, not just an uninformed viewpoint based on hearsay and hurt feelings.

Appalled

Are you blind mike or just to ignorant to read my previous comment?

Put simply the Government "STOLE" 2053km of coastline previously owned by Maori by way of legislation. This rather 'quick' decision to legislate came after when the Court of Appeal ruled that "The Maori Land Court has the jurisdiction to determine the status of Foreshore and Seabed." THAT'S ALL!!

UNTIL the Government bullied their way in with this totally unnecessary and 'rushed' law based purely on fear used as their rationale and portrayed through the mainstream media; spreading fear that the MLC would be flooded by 'tens of thousands' of 'maoris' to make claims to ALL the F&S around NZ and that 'the maoris' would 'stop or block' public access which was TOTAL LIES!(think of Lake Taupo, owned by Ngati Tuwharetoa)

The Courts, and ONLY the Courts, should be left to interpret the law WITHOUT the Government interfering with that process. When the Crown lost against Maori in the Court system, they definately got their way in the end.

Conclusion:
REPEAL THE FORESHORE & SEABED ACT!!

pfft

That's the biggest load of B.S ive ever heard!

GET RID OF THE MAORI PARTY, NO PARTY SHOULD BE BASED ON "ETHNICITY"!

ONE Govt, ONE People and ALL to be EQUAL before the Law, not for a minority like the maoris to be ABOVE the Law!

STOP the handouts of HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of all our hard earned taxpayers money! this won't fix the 'maori problem'.

MAORIS SHOULD STAND UP AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY NOW!

When's this s#*! going to stop?

Mike

Appalled - Factual is opinion as fact require interpretation always affected by the emotional bias of those involved.

One lecturer's take on events does not a fact make.


I have read a very different take on history, but which is real?


Well, you've shown your hand.


I agree that the predominance of poverty beget violence and crime, but DO NOT discount the place of culture in this case.

The Maori culture is one very violent culture regardless of wealth or poverty, placing such reverence in the violent deeds of their "warrior" past.


All uninitiated violence is unacceptable.

Whoever it is from.

Genious

Agreed!

Too much of Maori culture is based around the acceptance and glorification of their violent past.

Once were warriors, the movie made a whole bunch of young Maoris proud of their extreme violent heritage instead of seeking to distance themselves from the past.


When one's own hard earned success is the ultimate source of pride for the Maori culture then much more success will ensue.


Here's hoping.

Dan In Real Life

Well fortunately I don't share the same views as you, at least Maori have a culture and heritage to be proud of...I mean honestly, do Pakeha even have a culture?? and since when have the Pakehas shameful and dark past weren't violent??

pfft

And why do Pakehas draw on aspects of Maori culture when getting tattoos or wearing bone carvings or greenstone of this so called 'violent culture'?

It's almost laughable!

pfft

The difference is that Caucasians don't glorify nor celebrate the shameful actions of their people and seek to emulate in the name of "culture"

As for your insignificant Maori culture, I don't see too many white people copying you, only white Maoris, which you all are.


As for do Caucasians have a culture?


How about.....We invented friggin' everything that you take for granted.


How about you stop using.....


Cars

Dishwashers

Refridgerators

Microwaves

Stove tops

Air Conditioning

Air Planes

Electricity

Ovens

Penicilin

Beta blockers



Gee, medical breakthroughs and technology.


I'm proud of what my people have created and what a huge, massive irreplaceble debt the world owes to the Causcasian race.


Or bone carvings and cannabalism


GFYS You know the acronym

Sam I Am

I don't think put downs are necessary, this is more a disagreement about legalities more than anything else. Each side has a point view and everyone should be respectful of others so long as they are doing the same.

Though I do Believe in the right of reply and freedom of speech.

Unique

Many Maori including myself have witnessed this very problem here and abroad first hand where pakeha have used Maori culture to portray 'a sense of belonging'

Why? they do have they're own culture to relate to don't they??
Belonging? the only place pakehas truly belong is England, their filthy 'motherland'

And NO pakehas didn't invent 'everything', I wonder where pakehas were in the pecking order when Chinese invented gunpowder and paper years before christ?? still uncivilised, canabilistic and running around savagely?

At least Maori don't 'hide' or 'refuse to acknowledge' THAT truth! what cracks me up is when pakehas today say 'the maoris ate their own people' while pakeha themselves were cannibals aswell.

pfft

Pfft, you are showing your uneducated hand yet again it seems.

Paper was an Egyptian invention.

Caucasians are not native to England, much like you are not native to NZ...lest I stake a claim against English land?


And as for the culture debate, when you all stop trying to be African Americans, a culture that really is self developed and truly measured by genuine hardship and inequity, then you can point the finger at Caucasians emulating others.

My respect for your point of view has waned severely after your obvious lack of thought into the points you seek to make.


You insulted my people en masse and I only sought to set you straight, but your own words seem to fight half the battle for me.

Sam I Am

Feel free to stop using white mans medicine at anytime in protest at your disgust!

Sam I Am

It's pointless arguing, pfft thinks white man is evil, but doesn't mind using a motor car or any other white man world things.


They want the best of both worlds and it aint gonna happen.

3&1/2 million white people that you hate so much are fed up with the handouts and the claims from Maoris with 1/8 heritage.


Not Native = Not Getting Paid IMHO

Whatever

It goes both ways when you continue to insult my people en masse.

My point is that pakeha are 'hypocrites' and ate their own people aswell when they only had primitive knowledge & tools.

Maybe pakeha should give back 'everything' that was 'stolen' off Maori(by force, laws or otherwise) and go back to the land where god put you, wherever that is, it's not england?

Pakeha(not just the crown) should share the responsibility of the cultural genocide their forefathers chose to take part in, not just 'refuse to acknowledge' it.

This 'pakeha system' we're living in today will always continue to deprive maori no matter what way, shape or form eg. F&S act, the latest 'theft' which in fact has been happening for over 150 years and will have serious repercussions in the future.

pfft

NOPE!
I don't think all 'white people' are 'evil', just you and your buddies.

pfft

So, what was that? Pakeha should leave the land and go back to where god put them - WTF


Where the f*** did Maori get put?

Dead set, that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard from anybody in my life.


WTF

White Men Can Jump

Geez where you been?!

Yes! Pakeha should give back everything that was 'stolen' and 'wrongfully taken' off maori and go back to wherever, on the proviso that maori cease to use 'everything' that the 'white man' supposedly created.

White Men Jumped Alright!

I was just blown away by the ignorance of the remark and the hypocrisy.

If White man goes back to whence he came, then of course the Maori would be friggin' gone-ski too!


They CAME from overseas just like the White man.


I'm still reeling in disbelief.


We'll all go back to Europe, and they can go back to Hawaii, Polynesia, Asia or where ever it is they came from.


Really, pfft, you blew it on this one!

White Men Can Jump

Actually, Cannibalism amongst early period Caucasoids, was extremely rare and considering the numbers, almost non-existence.

Some mixed races which you could not call specifically Caucasian did practice it through time, but in vastly low numbers en proportional.

It's the sheer amount of Maori that WERE cannibals that makes for inglorious representation and hence is brought up in fickle argument.


But I will not stand for pfft pointing the finger and saying Caucasians had the same blood thirsty, aggressive evolutions that beset the Maori beginnings when it's not true.


pfft just dropped the ball, yet again it seems.

Enlightened

ha ha Pfft you Dummy, you're getting owned now, bay... ha ha ha ha
I love it how when people completely and utterly shoot you down in flames every single time you ignore your previous arguments and just spout some lame one liners, you suk 'G'( for Gangsta), and its so funny that you just keepmaking yourself look like a total dummy, uneducated and very unwise. Ha ha ha ha ha ha DUMMY!!!

Freestyler

I knew one of you would jump on my previous comment!

Almost like flies landing on s#!@ LOL!!


That aside, it still doesn't hide the fact that pakeha too were once a violent, savage & cannibalistic people, and I might add, not as "rare" and definately not "almost non-existence" as what Enlightened might have everyone believe.

Please don't try and 'water down' the truth about the pakehas violent, savage and cannibalistic past because we all know, cannibalism among other things, is not only confined to 'Pakeha' or even 'Maori' culture but MANY PEOPLES & CULTURES AROUND THE WORLD PAST AND PRESENT.

SO STOP BEING 'HYPOCRITES', AND AT LEAST 'ACKNOWLEDGE THE LEVEL IT TRULY DESERVES' AND MOVE ON!!

pfft

"Everyone is born with the same chance of success" interesting, yes I agree, that's why a child in the slums of India has every bit as much of a chance of becoming 'academically highly educated' and successful! Get real that is why survival rates for infants are so hight in third world countries. You are often the product of your environment due to Many a factor!

Don brash is naive to think we can be one people. Which 'one people' is that? Maori? Asian? Pakeha? Who is willing to give up their culture to support his plan of being one people? The european New Zealanders? I don't think so, will they still then exploit Maori culture as a tourist draw card?

The amount of unintelligent dribble on this wall makes me laugh. When a group of people are placed in a system that is at odds with the way their culture is, they will struggle to fit into that new system for centuries,New Zealand is a young country and needs time to develop. Yes there are uneducated, jobless, crime commiting Maori same as there are in every other race.

As for the debate that various races are blood thirsty or evil, it is not a prescribed racial propensity but rather and individual choice. Half the worlds indigeonous populations where at sometime attacked, slaughtered and disenfranchised from their land and culture by Europeans. So Maori occasionally ate those they conquered (only tohunga or cheif of other tribes as it was about consuming mana and power) Waste not want not, thought you racists would be pleased one Maori killed another.

Oh and by the way, I'm Maori educated and teaching, never committed a crime in my life, same goes for the rest of my family including all 45 of my cousins - I am also teaching the future generations of NZ - gutted huh

Maria

The siege in napier was an unfortunate event, but I wonder if law enforcement would have 'quickly dealt with the matter' if the shooter was maori or better yet a mongrel mob member? well...we all know the answer to that.


Speaking on the 'gang' topic, the nz govt recently passed a law to ban the wearing of gang patches in public instead of actually tackling gangs and their criminal empires. The bill includes gangs like the mongrel mob and black power, but I noticed that the 'outcast gang' were not on the list? I couldn't help but wonder why?...and don't say their only 'motorcycle clubs' for 'bike enthusiasts' either!

Carl

"So Maori "occasionally" ate those they conquered (only tohunga or cheif of other tribes as it was about consuming mana and power)"

Now now Maria! The maoris ate anyone they could get their hands on.

Tim

Haha! Another one who didn't know his ancestors ate people.

pfft

Pfft is back in the game!

Turnip Sald

Im interested to see what the review of f&s act will be.

Me

It doesnt really matter now because the govt had already sold off parts of the foreshore soon after that became law.

Mynd

So a couple of violent Masterton Maori women beat a man to death, so what else is in the news?

Eaten

"Brash Calls for One People"- What a joke!

Phil, like Don is playing the 'race' card again to gain support because he's out of tricks. It just goes to show how desperate some get when the 'chips are down'.

Blind